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Auphelia wrote:Ah, so it is! I don't see how it is racist, though. In a colonial context, there are quite a number of Indians in the UK, and while it gets a bit morbid at times (as all the most fun rhymes do) it doesn't appear they are doing anything stereotypical to where replacing them with British boys would change the meaning of the poem.

Agatha Christie's novel was originally published in the UK as 10 Little N****rs, with that word in the title and throughout the text being changed to "Indian" for publication in the US, where it was considered problematic at an earlier stage. The book was published in the original form in the UK right through to 1985. With the original n-word in place, the rhyme is word for word the lyrics of an American song performed by black-faced minstrel acts, including the reference to Devon. It has nothing to do with people from India settling in the UK. So yes, it's racist.

Uan aa Boa wrote:Agatha Christie's novel was originally published in the UK as 10 Little N****rs, with that word in the title and throughout the text being changed to "Indian" for publication in the US, where it was considered problematic at an earlier stage. The book was published in the original form in the UK right through to 1985. With the original n-word in place, the rhyme is word for word the lyrics of an American song performed by black-faced minstrel acts, including the reference to Devon. It has nothing to do with people from India settling in the UK. So yes, it's racist.

Holy sweet hell. Okay, so Agatha Christie moves from my awesome author list to my 10 Little Sh!tters list.

Also, congratulations to Verdant Haven! I don't know if I said that already.

What is the deal with the Pokemon thing? Is it over yet? And more importantly, when can I expect to print out a 3-D, living Mew? :-D

Mount Seymour wrote:Indeed. And Then There Were None, in fact, is... the last line of this rhyme (the title was originally a different, much more problematic phrase from it). It's a major part of the book's plot. Certainly the rhyme itself is racist and should not be used as a nursery rhyme or folk chant today, but in this context -- a poll about mysterious murders -- it's clearly a Christie reference, so I'd say it's okay.

Oh now I understand. It’s not really racist then, simply bad taste, as you could’ve just as easily say and then there were none. Sorry

Middle Barael wrote:Oh now I understand. It’s not really racist then, simply bad taste, as you could’ve just as easily say and then there were none. Sorry

If you haven't, read Uan aa Boa's above post:

Uan aa Boa wrote:Agatha Christie's novel was originally published in the UK as 10 Little N****rs, with that word in the title and throughout the text being changed to "Indian" for publication in the US, where it was considered problematic at an earlier stage. The book was published in the original form in the UK right through to 1985. With the original n-word in place, the rhyme is word for word the lyrics of an American song performed by black-faced minstrel acts, including the reference to Devon. It has nothing to do with people from India settling in the UK. So yes, it's racist.

I'd say you were correct in your original assessment.

Northern Wood wrote:If you haven't, read Uan aa Boa's above post:

I'd say you were correct in your original assessment.

Oh ok, so it is actually racist then. I haven’t read Agatha Christie, so I did not know what this is from. I simply went off of what I heard

Uan aa Boa wrote:Agatha Christie's novel was originally published in the UK as 10 Little N****rs, with that word in the title and throughout the text being changed to "Indian" for publication in the US, where it was considered problematic at an earlier stage. The book was published in the original form in the UK right through to 1985. With the original n-word in place, the rhyme is word for word the lyrics of an American song performed by black-faced minstrel acts, including the reference to Devon. It has nothing to do with people from India settling in the UK. So yes, it's racist.

That's certainly not very good at all, now is it? Well, I suppose I'll have to change directions, now won't I?

Ruinenlust wrote:Holy sweet hell. Okay, so Agatha Christie moves from my awesome author list to my 10 Little Sh!tters list.

Oh, she's a wonderful novelist and her works are quite nice. Reading original editions of her works, however, does reveal some rather unfortunate statements about (among other things): Africans, Asians, Italians, Jews, Catholics, and Arabs. Of course, most of these distasteful statements come from those otherwise characterised as terrible people (many claim that this emphasises their villainy) and thus might indicate Christie herself was not racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-Catholic.

She was also a a British woman whose writing was written in the first half of the twentieth century, so it's quite possibly she at least had some distasteful views we enlightened modern folk know to look down upon.

Middle Barael wrote:Oh ok, so it is actually racist then. I haven’t read Agatha Christie, so I did not know what this is from. I simply went off of what I heard

Yes, it is. I had been under the wrong impression for years as to what sort of Indians were being referred to, foolishly thinking only people from India would be called Indians, not realising North America was also India (the only logical conclusion to the moniker of their native peoples).

Middle Barael wrote:Oh now I understand. It’s not really racist then, simply bad taste, as you could’ve just as easily say and then there were none. Sorry

I usually advertise my posts multiple times before they're gone and had been planning to count down to the final line for the particularly obtuse, but I don't think that would be a wise decision given recent information.

Thus, I give you:

Can you solve this mysterious affair with style?

page=poll/p=158280

Middle Barael wrote:I haven’t read Agatha Christie, so I did not know what this is from. I simply went off of what I heard

I haven't read her either, I only know her stuff through film and TV adaptations, which are plentiful in the UK. I wouldn't have known she used the rhyme if Mount Seymour hadn't pointed it out. That's the fantastic thing about the internet, though. It really is a world of information at your fingertips, and checking takes minutes.

I'm not totally sure, but I think as a small child I might have encountered an even more cleaned up version of the rhyme changed again to 10 Little Soldiers, presumably without the suicide, choking and dismemberment. I wonder if my teachers or kindergarten leaders knew its origins.

Auphelia wrote:Well that's certainly not very good at all, now is it? Well, I suppose I'll have to change directions, now won't I?

You are truly that rarest of online beings, a person who'll change their mind in light of new information. This must be stamped out pronto, lest the internet become reasonable.

Auphelia wrote:Oh, she's a wonderful novelist and her works are quite nice. Reading original editions of her works, however, does reveal some rather unfortunate statements about (among other things): Africans, Asians, Italians, Jews, Catholics, and Arabs.

It shouldn't be surprising that writers reflect the attitudes prevalent in their own time, and we'd be pretty impoverished if we only allowed works that fully fit in with our 21st century sensibilities (it's political correctness gone mad, you can't say nuffin' nowadays). That said, we can't really be totally uncritical of the colonial values of Rudyard Kipling (and how they're drip fed to kids via the scouting movement), the anti-Semitism of The Merchant of Venice or the philosopher Hegel announcing that women are intellectually comparable to vegetables. Particularly difficult is another philosopher, Heidegger, who had an enormous influence on the cultural theory and postmodernism enjoyed by left wing types but who also denounced his Jewish mentors when he became an outspoken member of the Nazi party - I think this is especially because he saw the fascism as a conclusion of his philosophy and not separable from the content in the way the Agatha Christie's attitudes probably are. I find how we negotiate these problems a fascinating subject.

Uan aa Boa wrote:You are truly that rarest of online beings, a person who'll change their mind in light of new information. This must be stamped out pronto, lest the internet become reasonable.

It's likely the reason I was condemned, come to think of it.

A dreadful habit, I know, but one that I simply can't seem to divest myself of. Quite a conundrum, indeed.

Uan aa Boa wrote: I'm not totally sure, but I think as a small child I might have encountered an even more cleaned up version of the rhyme changed again to 10 Little Soldiers, presumably without the suicide, choking and dismemberment. I wonder if my teachers or kindergarten leaders knew its origins.

I also remember hearing ten little soldiers. I think I also heard ten little Indians, but I remember being very annoyed with whoever said it, because it seemed to be making fun of them.

if i'm not mistaken, weren't the "ten little" the murder suspects on the orient express?
i mean, yes that title came from what was a nursury rhyme at the time she wrote it.
western/christian culture had this @$$h@tted notion, that certain subgeniouses like don panoccio want to bring back,
about being what everything else was all about, and the average person of that priveliged birth, was even taught,
to never give it a great deal of thought. so in that sense, i thing the statistic has come a long positive way away from there since.
still has a long way to figure out humans aren't the center of the universe, but it has come a long way.
two steps forward and occasionally one back.

oddly enough, canterberry tails anyone?

The marvelous Republic of Ur preposes a deal to those in this great region. The great museums of Ur are looking for more art to display and the art budget of our glorious nation is quite flat right now. We offer one and a half of the junk price of any cards gifted now to be given back to those generous nation in other cards.

PS, only rare and up count as this nations junks are selling art of the uncommon and common verities.

Government Post:

Errinundera, may I please have the following people appointed as officers, with the titles and authorities as listed:

Chan Island - Deputy Forest Keeper: communications, polls, embassies, appearance
Mozworld - Face of Forest: communications, appearance
Turbeaux - Conscience of Forest: communications, polls
Ruinenlust - Foreign Affairs Branch: communications, polls, and embassies
Lord Dominator - Community Branch: communications, polls
Mount Seymour - Communications Branch: communications, polls
Kawastyselir - Arborist: communications
Octopus Islands - Cartographer: communications

Many thanks!

-------------

I would also like to give my thanks to Darths and Droids, who has elected to step down from the position of Game Warden after serving well in the previous term.

At this time, I am looking to fill two officer positions, one is the vacancy left by Darths and Droids' departure, and the other is the newly-created position of Senior Ambassador. We are also always looking for ambassadors. The job descriptions are roughly as follows (subject to personal flair, negotiation, and the ever-changing needs of the region):

Game Warden: This position will be somebody who helps work on events, with a particular focus (though not necessarily exclusive) on in-character content. We aren't a roleplay region, but we have people who enjoy participating in RP, and we do have various "in-character participation" activities that are widely enjoyed. Things like "Post an account from your nations" would be something on which the Game Warden would take the lead. If you like creative writing, or enjoy the RP forums, or just want to take a swing at helping keep the mood as light as possible with the world seeing so much real-life tragedy, this might be a good spot.

Senior Ambassador: Keeping track of all of our ambassadors, recruiting new ones, and providing a point-of-contact for internal ambassador communications is an entire job by itself! If you're interested in diplomacy between regions, like helping your fellow Foresters keep things sorted, and want a big comfy chair, consider this possibility! I encourage current ambassadors to apply, as it is safe to assume that the senior ambassador will themself be the ambassador to one or more of our embassy regions, and will work with the Foreign Affairs Branch to prioritize empty spots for filling.

Ambassadors: Not "regional officers" officially, but people who represent us all none-the-less, ambassadors are our official communication links with our allies. Great for people who want to give something back for Forest, but aren't able to commit to the full time/workload of a regional officer position.

If you are interested in any of these officer positions, please let me know! I've already been communicating with a couple folks, and want to make sure everybody who is interested has a chance to speak up. Likewise, if you think you see a need for an officer or a deputy-officer, speak to me or to the primary officer in question and make a proposal! It's how I got my start in government here, and I'm keeping our final officer slot available for just such usage should it come up.

Lura wrote:That's a lot to unpack. So much so that I can't even work out every region you just mentioned.

Won't stop me from trying though. From beginning to end I see: Europe, The South Pacific, Forest, Thaecia, something, The North Pacific, New West Indies, also something, Thalassia and 10000 Islands.

How did I do?

the two somethings are Heart and Kantrias ;)
----------------------------------------------
page=poll/p=158376 I beat Auphelia on posting the poll!

Verdant Haven wrote:Government Post:

Errinundera, may I please have the following people appointed as officers, with the titles and authorities as listed...

Done and done.

Newvigen wrote:page=poll/p=158376 I beat Auphelia on posting the poll!

Because it's a poll meant to inform the government of TSP on the optimal way to format our dispatches so they suit the majority of users. I haven't been posting this one around (but left it open for other regions) so nations who actually go to TSP, whether they live in the region or not, can vote.

Post self-deleted by The Young Ur.

As a recent immanent to this very green region, I have very few endorsements, of course, our nation understands this, to endorse a nation you have not toured yet would be a folly. What disturbs the leader of this country is the fact that despite there are currently 117 World Assembly countries in this region, only fifty of them have thirty endorsements or more. Our leaders understand disliking or distrusting nations with disagreeable policies, and not endorsing such countries is understandable. What the great Ur proposes today is that every nation endorses just thirty WA countries. If that happened our political power would reach new heights, every country would truly have a vote, and the Forest would become a better place altogether.

The Young Ur wrote:As a recent immanent to this very green region, I have very few endorsements, of course, our nation understands this, to endorse a nation you have not toured yet would be a folly. What disturbs the leader of this country is the fact that despite there are currently 117 World Assembly countries in this region, only fifty of them have thirty endorsements or more. Our leaders understand disliking or distrusting nations with disagreeable policies, and not endorsing such countries is understandable. What the great Ur proposes today is that every nation endorses just thirty WA countries. If that happened our political power would reach new heights, every country would truly have a vote, and the Forest would become a better place altogether.

Great idea! I’ve just endorsed you, and so now you can endorse me! Also, who should I endorse next?

The Ur is gladdened by your enthusiasm, we suggest to start at the bottom of the list below and simply go up. page=list_nations/region=forest/censusid=66?jump_to_page=12&start=110

The Young Ur wrote:The Ur is gladdened by your enthusiasm, we suggest to start at the bottom of the list below and simply go up. page=list_nations/region=forest/censusid=66?jump_to_page=12&start=110

I’d ask for everyone who is participating in this endorsement event thing to endorse Gandenia. They have very few endorsements, but they are a good nation, and one of our two biggest ally nations. Before you ask, they are not our puppet, they are simply our biggest ally besides Mowte.

Who is the Foreign Minister of the Forest? Our country would like to participate in the politics of the region and it seem becoming an ambassador is the first step.

The Young Ur wrote:Who is the Foreign Minister of the Forest? Our country would like to participate in the politics of the region and it seem becoming an ambassador is the first step.

They have not yet named our Senior Ambassador. You can telegram Verdant Haven if you’d like to apply either as the Senior Ambassador (our version of a foreign minister) or as a normal ambassador.

Middle Barael wrote:They have not yet named our Senior Ambassador. You can telegram Verdant Haven if you’d like to apply either as the Senior Ambassador (our version of a foreign minister) or as a normal ambassador.

Ruinenlust will still be FM. The Senior Ambassador is going to be limited to managing embassies. Verdant Haven used to be an excellent Deputy FM, so I am happy to see another foreign affairs position opening up!

The Young Ur wrote:Who is the Foreign Minister of the Forest? Our country would like to participate in the politics of the region and it seem becoming an ambassador is the first step.

I am the Young Ur‘s ambassador puppet. To give some background we were part of a nomadic people within Ur and we wanted to travel to more places and we could not do that within Ur. So the great leader granted us autonomy and now we serve as an ambassadorial state for the homeland.

Turbeaux wrote:Ruinenlust will still be FM. The Senior Ambassador is going to be limited to managing embassies. Verdant Haven used to be an excellent Deputy FM, so I am happy to see another foreign affairs position opening up!

I agree....an interesting position. I think it would help if Verdant Haven would elaborate a bit further about what he envisions with this position. As I am reprioritizing how I spend my time both in RL and online I at the moment have no ambition to fill the position but I think it would lead to some interesting viewpoints on this RMB and might make some other nations enthusiastic about fulfilling that role.

Talking about ambassadorships. Does anyone have a clue what happened to The Region That Has No Big Banks? It was more or less a dormant region for the last couple of years and I had hoped on a surge due to the presidential candidate elections but that didn't really happen. In fact I was about to suggest it as and embassy to be closed as the number of active nations was getting lower and lower with the total number of nations somewhere around 30 around in April. Imagine my surprise when I logged in to find out if it still existed after Bernie dropped out of the race only to find that it now has over 400 nations in it !!!? From about 30 to over 400 must have a reason but a quick search on their now active RMB doesn't reveal anything. I might go ask it there but maybe someone on here can already fill me in as our region seems to well connected.

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