by Max Barry

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Caracasus

Uan did not to the best of my knowledge ask for a resignation. I said I would like to see one and honestly I still would. I really don't find jokes about gassing jews funny, and although I admit in certain weird hypothetical situations it might be more understandable - perhaps as a sarcastic and hyperbolic comeback to someone accusing you of being a nazi - however the context here as far as I understand it is not that. In this context it appears to just be an edgy jobe because the holocaust is edgy joke material apparently.

Canaltia wrote:

But let's pretend that this controversy was something minor, say a post about eating cereal with orange juice or something like that. Even with that, your government has come onto our RMB, spammed us with conspiracies that barely affected us, insulted the members of our region, and frankly made your region look very unappealing. To me, this shows a complete lack of commitment to foreign relations, and it makes me wonder whether or not you even want us as an embassy, because it sure looks like you don't to me.

I mean, if you choose the disregard the greater context of the situation, then you're not much better than those who choose to shut us out from sharing our side of the story completely. Perhaps it sheds light on the motivation of the person who revealed the Discord posts, and why he chose to spread it outside instead of approaching us directly and demanding some sort of repercussion against the offender. But hey, that's just my opinion.

I've only sent materials that I believe to be beneficial to understand the situation fully. Nothing more, nothing less.

For the record I kind of think this is a bad day for both our regions. I wasn't happy when the embassy with Gay closed either.

Still. Hopefully we can move on.

Larnion wrote:I mean, if you choose the disregard the greater context of the situation, then you're not much better than those who choose to shut us out from sharing our side of the story completely. Perhaps it sheds light on the motivation of the person who revealed the Discord posts, and why he chose to spread it outside instead of approaching us directly and demanding some sort of repercussion against the offender. But hey, that's just my opinion.

I've only sent materials that I believe to be beneficial to understand the situation fully. Nothing more, nothing less.

Right, I'm going to be completely honest. Larnion, I like you, and I'm glad someone on your side is still fighting for this embassy between us. But please don't pick a hypothetical at the end of a post to base a point off of. If I chose to disregard the greater context, than yes, I wouldn't be much better. But I've gone through multiple region RMBs, read multiple discord posts and screenshots, and taken a good look at the materials you've sent. I'm a bit annoyed that you would insinuate that I'm ignoring the context of the situation.

I agree completely that your quote in the TSP document was taken out of context, and while I still find it a bit offensive, I don't think it's close to bad enough for an embassy closure. I'm going to stay decidedly neutral in your affairs between South Asians and the LCRUA, but I would suggest that people hear out both sides, since with the context, there is a very strong base for debate. In fact, if it were just the discord posts, I might even be arguing for LCRUA to some extent.

However, the problem in my eyes comes from LCRUA's inability to hold an open discussion about it, and the government's seeming disdain for any foreign relations at all at times. On top of that, it really seems like people aren't holding others accountable. This is just as big, maybe even bigger, as the offensive "jokes" that took place in the discord.

I would suggest that you do exactly what you are doing right now. Get your side out (since the TSP document lacks any context), explain the government's decisions, and hold discussions on free speech vs. hate speech. I am concerned about how LCRUA doesn't seem to appreciate any outsider perspective, and how reluctant they are to make change in general.

Anywho, I'll stop ranting now. My vote is staying where it is, and I think I speak for a lot of Forestians when I say it is going to be an uphill battle to sway our general opinion.

Alpenburg, Larnion, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, and 3 othersTurbeaux, Altmer dominion, and Rivienland

Canaltia wrote:-snip-

I can't do anything but say that you're quite right, as far as I'm concerned, the handling of the situation by both myself and my colleagues - stares - was quite abysmal. Funnily enough, I've been called out for approaching the situation the wrong way in the beginning of this 'scandal', whereas now it is them who tackle the issue quite inappropriately. Communication sure is hard...

To better word what was said here - we simply wish for others to hear us out and understand the situation properly; if a region chooses not to, that embassy doesn't have any value to us - that would be intentional ignorance of the context.

Forest has been the first, and so far, only embassy region that prompted us to share our viewpoint and give our insight, which I appreciate; regardless, I am slightly saddened that the initial judgement of The LCRUA and many uninformed or uninvolved members thereof had been passed before the information was provided.

Anyway, I won't bother you all anymore. Have a nice rest of the day.

Caracasus, Ownzone, Lord Dominator, Dwardossa, and 3 othersTurbeaux, Canaltia, and Altmer dominion

Meow, happy to be here...

May I use that tree over there as a scratching post?

Meow...

Never mind, I ain't need no permission to do that.

Also, who is in charge of cleaning my litterbox here? Need I remind you that I'll pee right under that tree if you don't clean my box RIGHT NOW??

Meow

Larnion wrote:Forest has been the first, and so far, only embassy region that prompted us to share our viewpoint and give our insight, which I appreciate.

Don't read too much into that, it's just a side-effect of our constitution. In the matter of embassies we're a direct democracy. Whereas the leaders of TSP and the 6 other regions who have cancelled or aborted an embassy in the last few days can presumably take a quick government decision to do so, we can only close an embassy on the basis of a poll open to all natives, together with all the debate that goes with that. And this is good for many reasons - increased participation, flatter structure, prevention of overreach etc etc. In the current context, however, it's a pain in arse because I really don't want to have this sh1tstorm. I don't want 50 posts in an afternoon with accusations and counter-accusations. I don't want to become the stage on which you guys have an argument with someone who left your region months ago. I don't want to read 6 months of he-said-she-said gossip. I don't want to hear about your bizarre legal system that sentences anti-Semitic people to make collages about the Holocaust. Nothing personal, but I really don't care.

To me this is simple. Your Discord is full of crap and you won't do anything about it. Therefore we don't want an embassy. End of. There is no convoluted time consuming explanation that's going to make us all realise that casual banter about concentration camps is no big deal so long a you're not actually advocates of real life genocide. It's such a complete no-brainer, as the current 15-0 standing of the vote attests, and the fact that you guys don't see that only emphasises what a poor match our regions are. I would rather have spent my NS time today writing something for our Journey Through the Woods event, keeping up with an RP I'm perpetually behind on and continuing a TG discussion with a friend. If there was a big red embassy closure button that I was allowed to press you would have been gone several days ago and I would already have forgotten about it.

Our unusual rules meant that all this drama was, sadly, pretty much inevitable. It wasn't intended as a "prompt to share your viewpoint and give your insight" and I think you and Smolcasm have had ample opportunity to say your piece. Unless Forest voters have specific questions I would appreciate it if you would now let our poll run its course. As today one of you pre-emptively ordered the closure of the embassy and the other over-ruled them you probably have plenty to discuss in private.

Zaila two-the squeakquel wrote:.... this is a normal thing in our #general channel.

So it seems, which is precisely the problem.

Zaila two-the squeakquel wrote:If I did something actually offensive, there would be repercussions.

You did, and the mass embassy closure currently going on is a repercussion.

Verdant Haven, Alpenburg, Caracasus, Mount Seymour, and 7 othersEryndlynd, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Canaltia, The void territories, The mongol forest, and Santa guerrera

Turbeaux wrote:Welcome to Forest, Feline Masters!

Hello, human! Are you my designated servant?

Alpenburg, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Canaltia, and 2 othersCat-herders united, and The mongol forest

Feline Masters wrote:Hello, human! Are you my designated servant?

No, just a greeter. Feel free to pee under the trees because we can use the nutrients!

Alpenburg, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Canaltia, and 3 othersCat-herders united, The mongol forest, and Feline Masters

Turbeaux wrote:No, just a greeter. Feel free to pee under the trees because we can use the nutrients!

I already did. Because my litterbox has still not been cleaned! But an empress isn't supposed to be treated like this. If my mommy had seen this, she'd be heartbroken. Her little furbaby digging in the dirt to make a peehole for herself. Oh my!

Anything to eat for me here? Some chicken or fish, perhaps?

Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Canaltia, and 2 othersCat-herders united, and The mongol forest

I second the motion on the closure. I have not been in their Discord or their region, but the compelling evidence shows that there has been a case of misconduct in their region, and there was nothing done to stop those comments.

We should disassociate from it for now. I can only hope that there will be a formal apology or something similar to that effect, and that we will be able to establish an embassy once again.

EDIT: I see that they will offer no apology. It'll then be good that we close, and we already did close the embassy with them.

I want nothing to do with a region that instigates racism and does not admit to the wrongdoing.

With that said and done, apologies for bringing this up again. I just woke up at my time here, so... I have to catch up to speed with what happened.

Alpenburg, Frieden-und Freudenland, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, and 5 othersTurbeaux, Canaltia, Altmer dominion, The mongol forest, and Santa guerrera

Feline Masters wrote:I already did. Because my litterbox has still not been cleaned! But an empress isn't supposed to be treated like this. If my mommy had seen this, she'd be heartbroken. Her little furbaby digging in the dirt to make a peehole for herself. Oh my!

Anything to eat for me here? Some chicken or fish, perhaps?

There are fish in the streams and ponds along with insects, lizards, and voles under the trees. Help yourself!

Turbeaux wrote:There are fish in the streams and ponds along with insects, lizards, and voles under the trees. Help yourself!

Cats, man. I really love the feline companions, but they wipe out so much wildlife... :P

I heard somewhere that if cats started to attack and kill humans and they do with birds... They could wipe out 41% of our total population in a year.

Biologists estimated that cats are responsible for the deaths of as many as 3.7 billion birds and 20.7 billion smaller animals, including mice, voles and chipmunks, the Agence France-Presse reported.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_2575833

Turbeaux wrote:There are fish in the streams and ponds along with insects, lizards, and voles under the trees. Help yourself!

You mean, I have to do this myself, too??

Man, hoomans. They don't get a hint.

Look buddy, I don't eat filthy lizards (though I may catch one just to play with it). But if you have a canary in a cage or a rare tropical fish in the fish tank, I'll be happy to savor it. (I don't catch fish in the rivers, because I don't wanna risk falling into the water. Yikes!)

Alanis Star wrote:Cats, man. I really love the feline companions, but they wipe out so much wildlife... :P

I heard somewhere that if cats started to attack and kill humans and they do with birds... They could wipe out 41% of our total population in a year.

Biologists estimated that cats are responsible for the deaths of as many as 3.7 billion birds and 20.7 billion smaller animals, including mice, voles and chipmunks, the Agence France-Presse reported.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_2575833

Let me correct you: Not feline companions, hooman.

Feline masters.

Repeat after me.

Masters.

And yes, we do hunt and kill, but isn't it a little hypocritical on your part to marvel at our supposed cruelty, while your conspecifics kill mind-blowing quantities of livestock for nutrition? What if you modified those statistics and applied it to humans?

Research by the Blabla Institute shows that if humans had killed each other with the same frequency as they kill farm animals, there would be no humans left on Earth in a month.

Does it make sense?

Alanis Star wrote:Cats, man. I really love the feline companions, but they wipe out so much wildlife... :P

I heard somewhere that if cats started to attack and kill humans and they do with birds... They could wipe out 41% of our total population in a year.

Biologists estimated that cats are responsible for the deaths of as many as 3.7 billion birds and 20.7 billion smaller animals, including mice, voles and chipmunks, the Agence France-Presse reported.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_2575833

People should stop letting their cats roam outside or they will cause trouble like Feline Masters! :3

Turbeaux wrote:People should stop letting their cats roam outside or they will cause trouble like Feline Masters! :3

*slaps forehead with a paw*

You got the hierarchy of the relationship wrong. People don't have cats.

Cats have humans.

Alanis Star, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 3 othersCanaltia, Cat-herders united, and The mongol forest

Feline Masters wrote:*slaps forehead with a paw*

You got the hierarchy of the relationship wrong. People don't have cats.

Cats have humans.

Humans have spray bottles though!

Turbeaux wrote:Humans have spray bottles though!

And we have claws!

Feline Masters wrote:And we have claws!

And we have catnip!

If you can't beat 'em, drug 'em.

Mount Seymour wrote:And we have catnip!

If you can't beat 'em, drug 'em.

OK, you win.

*Sniff sniff*

Where is it?

Hi guys,

I'm sorry to say, but I've been so busy IRL that I haven't been following this thing with LUCRA and the anti-semitism. I got a telegram from a Zaila Two-The Squeakquel (I don't know who that is or what role they play in this) directing me to a post they made on LUCRA's RMB.

This is the post: region=the_lcrua/page=display_region_rmb?postid=34547474#p34547474

This person seems troubled in one way or another. They are incoherent and have very little grasp of what they're trying to talk about. Is this the person who was making the hate commentary? (And I apologize to the person in advance if they were not; I'm just in the dark.)

I hate to be the guy to make a request like this instead of reading up on everything myself, but I'm rather busy IRL, so: can someone contextualize and summary what's going on? I get that someone said things that were anti-Semitic, and that we are considering withdrawing embassies, but I feel like I should have a fuller picture of it, considering that I am--perhaps counterproductively--your Foreign Minister.

*deer in headlights* :-)

EDIT: I'm also just seeing for the first time that 8 hours ago, someone in LUCRA scheduled the withdrawal of their embassy with us, and then it was revoked by someone else, also 8 hours ago. Here's a follow-up question: are we implicated in this in some way or another, or is it just the debate over how our region is going to respond to the incident? I see that other regions are withdrawing embassies with them.

Caracasus, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 6 othersCanaltia, Rivienland, The mongol forest, Santa guerrera, Random Forest, and Feline Masters

I'm double posting, goddamnit. I never do it, so sue me.

I've reviewed these things a bit more, and I also just noticed Uan's poll. (I need to lay off the happy grass, some.)

In my opinion, clearly we ought to close embassies. I didn't really understand it, and I'd still love if someone could sort of summarize the whole thing in a few sentences or paragraphs, but it seems that we should close embassies. It would be unbecoming of our character to not take this seriously.

Edit: And, as a gay man of partial Jewish ancestry, I'm also kind of pissed off, for good measure. Why are we always kicked around? The guy's so pathetically unintelligent and unstable that it's not like his comments actually bother me, but still: can't we just be left alone? I'm so grateful to be alive in the 21st century; at least things are much, much better than they've been in many centuries, if not in all time, for LGBT+ people and also for Jewish people, too. I ultimately believe that the setbacks and rise in hate groups is the last fits of a dying monster, not the birth of something new. At least I hope so. :-/

Alpenburg, Caracasus, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, and 8 othersUan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Canaltia, New ladavia, Rivienland, The mongol forest, Santa guerrera, and Feline Masters

Ruinenlust wrote:

I hate to be the guy to make a request like this instead of reading up on everything myself, but I'm rather busy IRL, so: can someone contextualize and summary what's going on? I get that someone said things that were anti-Semitic, and that we are considering withdrawing embassies, but I feel like I should have a fuller picture of it, considering that I am--perhaps counterproductively--your Foreign Minister.

That individual, who is an LCRUA regional officer, made posts on the LCRUA Discord of an anti-semitic nature, as well as using bigoted language in multiple locations.

That individual has since insisted that it doesn't matter because it was all meant as jokes, and they believe it's ok to use hate speech if you don't "actually believe what you say."

This individual and others have also apparently used such language in the past, and had been warned against doing so again.

When further inquiries were made, the region's leadership basically responded that it wasn't their responsibility to deal with such things. They are only willing to look in to this out-of-game/out-of-character behavior if one of their residents files an official in-game/in-character complaint to them, in order to use their in-game/in-character regional mechanism of a "trial." They insisted no evidence had been presented due to people not following their in-game/in-character steps (despite it being plainly accessible in their own Discord), and honestly seem quite incapable of distinguishing between game world and non-game world actions.

There was a lot of other nonsense, unrelated politicking, and excuses, but I think the above sums it up reasonably.

Ruinenlust wrote:

EDIT: I'm also just seeing for the first time that 8 hours ago, someone in LUCRA scheduled the withdrawal of their embassy with us, and then it was revoked by someone else, also 8 hours ago. Here's a follow-up question: are we implicated in this in some way or another, or is it just the debate over how our region is going to respond to the incident? I see that other regions are withdrawing embassies with them.

We are not. LCRUA's own leadership appears to be in some kind of turmoil about it. As far as I can tell, the individual who initiated the closing of the embassy did so without consulting their fellow officers, and possibly in somewhat of a huff over the questioning being received from our representatives. Their regional delegate is the one who canceled that closure. We aren't implicated in any way except our continued association via embassy presence in a region that permits these behaviors. Due to our own constitutional requirements, withdrawing our embassy on our end requires a vote of the region's residents, which is the only reason closure hasn't already been initiated by Forest.

Caracasus, Mount Seymour, Ruinenlust, Lord Dominator, and 5 othersUan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Canaltia, Larifien, and Interstellar mage

Verdant Haven, thank you very much! I appreciate it. We will indeed have to wait for the voting period to end, and I will be waiting with my finger hovering over the mouse as the poll times out over the "withdraw" button or whatever it is.

It's at these rare moments when I wish that I had a special once-per-year executive death shot ability. Autocracy... lol.

Verdant Haven, Caracasus, Mount Seymour, Lord Dominator, and 5 othersUan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Canaltia, The mongol forest, and Interstellar mage

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