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Debate Period:

The Electoral Commission Act of 2021
Authors: Marvinville, Brototh & Taungu
Sponsor: Marvinville

We will now begin debating The Electoral Commission Act of 2021. Please express your thoughts and propose amendments if you wish.

Post self-deleted by Rivogna.

Overall it looks good, but I have a few amendments for consideration.

Changes Article 2, section 1.1 from:

"In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by assigning to each first-place vote a number, assigned by the time it was cast, then a random number generator will be used to determine which ballots shall be redistributed."

to:

"In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by counting the total number of votes over the quota a candidate is, then distributing those votes proportionally to the voters' second-choice candidates."

Amends Article 3, section 2 from:

"The High Court shall be given the power to deem results “illegal”, should it be confirmed that there was at least one of the following:"

to:

"The High Court shall have the power to deem results "illegal", should it be confirmed that there was a significant amount of the following incidents:"

The bill has been edited to fix concerns related to the inauguration date. Inaugurations will now take place on the 10th day in the month the election is planned for.

Rhyssuan Peoples wrote:Overall it looks good, but I have a few amendments for consideration.

Changes Article 2, section 1.1 from:

"In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by assigning to each first-place vote a number, assigned by the time it was cast, then a random number generator will be used to determine which ballots shall be redistributed."

to:

"In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by counting the total number of votes over the quota a candidate is, then distributing those votes proportionally to the voters' second-choice candidates."

Amends Article 3, section 2 from:

"The High Court shall be given the power to deem results “illegal”, should it be confirmed that there was at least one of the following:"

to:

"The High Court shall have the power to deem results "illegal", should it be confirmed that there was a significant amount of the following incidents:"

I do not support Amendment B- I'm not really an electoral type of person so I don't know much about how good A is, but I know for a fact I don't like B. If there is one of those offences, the results need to be recounted. If one of those things happen, there is a major issue. What is a significant amount? You'd need to define that. B creates a massive issue where, there could be one case of electoral fraud, but one is not "significant", and if it is, there is no definition.

It's not like a recount or new election has to be held- maybe there would be a very minor offence like the poll closing an hour before/after it should. But if there is any violation here, it should at least be considered what should happen next, such as a recount. Passing up a recount because there was only one issue, or even passing up a new election because there was one issue, any of the issues prior defined, is a major threat to our electoral integrity. A recount doesn't have to entail the entire voting populace- it could be as simple as deleting the one incorrect vote or such.

I would very much recommend you to withdraw this amendment.

Double post for new topic- I have amendments I would like to see sponsored.

Rename Article IV - The Inauguration of the Executive and Legislative positions
Change Art IV to read as follows:

  • Section I - The Electoral Commissioner shall inaugurate the President and Prime Minister on the House of Commons RMB, using the applicable oath detailed in Article IV, Section I, Subsection I or II.

    • I. Oath of office for President: "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of Thaecia, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Thaecia."

    • II. Oath of office for Prime Minister: "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of Prime Minister of Thaecia, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Thaecia."

  • Section I - The Electoral Commissioner shall inaugurate the President, Prime Minister, and Members of Parliament on the House of Commons RMB. They shall also inaugurate Senators on the Thaecian Senate RMB. This shall be done with a public statement on the applicable RMB, stating whom has won office, by the Electoral Commissioner. Once done, the individual shall take their office.

    • I. This statement must be made within the timespan provided Article II Section II and Article II Section VI.

    • II. Inauguration shall be defined as the day and/or moment an individual takes office following an election.

  • Section II - When a legislative chamber is inaugurated following an election, the Electoral Commissioner shall chair the chamber until a Speaker/Chair has been elected as per Article V. For this duration of time, they will have the permission to speak on the House of Commons and the Thaecian Senate RMB.

  • Section III - In order to take up their seat, the legislator-elect must take the oath of office detailed in Article IV, Section III, sub-section I of this law.

    • I. "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."

These inauguration passages are old and outdated. There is no point holding up time for these. You have already had to fight to get elected- there is no reason why you should have to do even more work to get inaugurated. I sincerely hope this can be sponsored- it is a massive waste of time to have these inaugurations. They give off such big USE and Enadia vibes, even without those, again, they are a waste of our time, when we could be getting involved immediately.

Amend Article I, Section II to read:
  • Section II - The Electoral Commissioner shall be nominated by the President and confirmed by a simple majority vote in the House of Commons and Senate.

  • I personally believe that more scrutiny on the person that governs all of our elections, our entire system and democracy, is absolutely needed. I hope these amendments can be sponsored by an MP, even if you don't agree, it would be good to see you debate them and vote on them.

    I'm sponsoring Brototh's amendments

    The bill overall is a step in the right direction.

    With regard to the other amendments:

    Amendment A: This just makes a lot more sense then the original to me. I am not an expert in the Electoral Process so I don't have much to say.

    Amendment B: Sorry Rhyssua, but I think that if there is one incident the election is compromised and should be re done. We should never sacrifice our electoral integrity.

    Amendment C: Inaugurations are a waste of time and we should move on from them. Not much else to say.

    Amendment D: The Electoral Commissioner is possibly one of the most important members of Thaecian Government so they should have extra scrutiny to ensure they are fit for the job.

    This ties into my next point. I will be proposing the following amendment:

    Amends Article 1, Section 1 to read:
    IV. The Electoral Commissioner, Deputy Electoral Commissioner, and Assistant Electoral Commissioners are to resign from any and all political parties they are a member of.

    The Electoral Commission must be impartial and having a Commission controlled by political parties makes them no longer impartial and subject to the influences of the party. This could spell danger and allow a political party to subvert democracy and rig elections under our noses. This amendment helps ensure they are not influenced by a party.

    Nova Anglicum wrote:snip
    Amends Article 1, Section 1 to read:
    IV. The Electoral Commissioner, Deputy Electoral Commissioner, and Assistant Electoral Commissioners are to resign from any and all political parties they are a member of.

    The Electoral Commission must be impartial and having a Commission controlled by political parties makes them no longer impartial and subject to the influences of the party. This could spell danger and allow a political party to subvert democracy and rig elections under our noses. This amendment helps ensure they are not influenced by a party.

    Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the Honourable MP Nova Anglicum for the support to my amendments, and to thank the Honourable MP Primo Order's support to the amendments as well.

    I would like to lightly remind the Honourable Member Nova Anglicum that, it is in my belief, Amendment E could be constructed as unconstitutional. Article VII of the Constitution of Thaecia guarantees all residents the liberty of: "The right to form or join a political party" without any government interference.

    It is my belief that, if the Honourable Member could argue that the amendment would only make the Electoral Commissioner and their Deputies and Assistants resign, it is not unconstitutional, as there is no right to remain within the party. However, I believe that, if this is true, it could only work once. The Electoral Commissioner and their aides would simply be able to rejoin, as they have the right to do so guaranteed by Article VII. If they join and are immediately forced to resign, it is simple to argue that this, in all practicality, removes the right to join, as they are forced to leave.

    I would like to ask the Honourable Member of Parliament to please withdraw Amendment E from the floor, and Mr Speaker, to ask you to refrain from placing it to vote, due to its unconstitutional nature.

    Brototh wrote:Snip

    Thank you for the clarification. I will say it does not remove the right to join as the Electoral Commission only must leave. However it does create a situation with the Electoral Commission constitutionally being able to rejoin but legally being forced to leave that I did not anticipate. I will withdraw Amendment E for that reason.

    In all honesty I love C, great time saver for no real loss. As for B, I understand the points the President is making, but still take issue with the court's authority to declare results "illegal" based on a single invalid vote. I'll withdraw my amendment, but I believe that it's a point worth addressing.

    D is a little more tricky because then the Court, which has the power to deem results illegal, wouldn't be subject to the same congressional scrutiny as the EC. That could be an issue for another time, however.

    I'd also like to take the opportunity to defend Amendment A a bit (I know nobody's raised objections yet but that can change). This isn't weighting, or anything resembling the process Fishergate used when he was acting EC. This is proportional redistribution, a mathematically accurate method that doesn't trust our democracy to the fate of an RNG. Under the RNG system, even if 10% of Candidate A's second choice votes go to Candidate B, Candidate B can receive 100% of the redistributed votes through sheer luck. Under the system I'm proposing in this amendment, Candidate B would receive 10% of the redistributed votes. I'm glad there's support for what (in my mind anyway) is a fair, common-sense change.

    Nova Anglicum wrote:The bill overall is a step in the right direction.

    With regard to the other amendments:

    Amendment A: This just makes a lot more sense then the original to me. I am not an expert in the Electoral Process so I don't have much to say.

    Amendment B: Sorry Rhyssua, but I think that if there is one incident the election is compromised and should be re done. We should never sacrifice our electoral integrity.

    Amendment C: Inaugurations are a waste of time and we should move on from them. Not much else to say.

    Amendment D: The Electoral Commissioner is possibly one of the most important members of Thaecian Government so they should have extra scrutiny to ensure they are fit for the job.

    This ties into my next point. I will be proposing the following amendment:

    Amends Article 1, Section 1 to read:
    IV. The Electoral Commissioner, Deputy Electoral Commissioner, and Assistant Electoral Commissioners are to resign from any and all political parties they are a member of.

    The Electoral Commission must be impartial and having a Commission controlled by political parties makes them no longer impartial and subject to the influences of the party. This could spell danger and allow a political party to subvert democracy and rig elections under our noses. This amendment helps ensure they are not influenced by a party.

    I fully endorse and support what my colleague and friend Nova Anglicum is proposing.

    Clarance wrote:I fully endorse and support what my colleague and friend Nova Anglicum is proposing.

    I appreciate the support however I'd like to remind my colleague I have withdrawn Amendment E as it is unconstitutional.

    I would like to give a few of my thoughts on the proposed amendments.

    For Amendment A, I like the idea but I worry if others in Congress, especially those in the Senate, that will disagree with this proposed change. I am currently undecided on how I will vote on Amendment A.

    For Amendment C, I'm not a big fan because I believe we should continue with our current inauguration process since we have been doing this process for well over a years time and I don't see a reason to stop it now. I still like to see it to be a formal process rather than something that the EC posts in a single message and then move on to the next step to elect a legislative leader.

    For Amendment D, I am opposed to this amendment. Why should the EC be confirmed by both chambers while all others only need to be confirmed by just one? While yes, the EC position is very important but there is also Justices, who only need support from one chamber and they get to then serve a "life" term. Justices themselves have a lot of say in decision making if cases do make their way to the court. Justices also have a much more involved role in the verification process, at least it was when I was a member of the High Court. The election results were never fully approved of immediately, and we even had to remove some votes due to citizenship issues with the voter. That is a very consequential step for Justices because if it is a close election between some nations, then just one vote can change the outcome, and that decision could be made by the court to decide which votes count. I would argue that if the EC needs approval from both chambers, then Justices should be approved by both chambers, but since this is not the case, then the EC should only be confirmed by the House of Commons because I'm sure that if the House approves of the nominee, then the Senate would basically rubber stamp the process.

    Marvinville wrote:For Amendment C, I'm not a big fan because I believe we should continue with our current inauguration process since we have been doing this process for well over a years time and I don't see a reason to stop it now. I still like to see it to be a formal process rather than something that the EC posts in a single message and then move on to the next step to elect a legislative leader.

    First of all I'm not really in the mood to talk about Amendment D- too many words me smol brain. Food for thought is this would mean the HoC appoints both the Justices and the EC unilateraly. The two groups that are responsible for our entire electoral integrity. Surely power must be shared at some point.

    What I will say is, for Amendment C, just because we have been doing something for a long time does not mean we shouldn't scrap it in favour of something more efficient. I may seem hypocritical for saying that considering my views on a citizen's legislature, although I think that is a very different matter entirely. The current inauguration process is an absolute waste of time- first you have to fight an election, then you have to give an oath, we have to sit around for a day of valuable time and probably more, when we could get right down to business not wasting any time. The current inauguration process, while something we have done for over a year, is not working for current Thaecia, and never did work for Thaecia, in my honest opinion.

    I can see the argument for oaths for the PM/President, as they don't have to elect a legislative leader- but all the same, they can get down to business quicker, they can be granted RO (regional officer) quicker, Andusre doesn't have to sit around waiting for us to get inaugurated just so he can remove the "President-elect" from our names. I don't see the argument for a legislative oath though, time wasted completely.

    Amendment Vote Period:

    The Electoral Commission Act of 2021
    Authors: Marvinville, Brototh & Taungu
    Sponsor: Marvinville

    Amendment A:
    Proposed by: Rhyssuan Peoples

    Changes Article 2, section 1.1 from:

    "In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by assigning to each first-place vote a number, assigned by the time it was cast, then a random number generator will be used to determine which ballots shall be redistributed."

    to:

    "In the counting of votes, when it comes to re-distributing the surplus of votes over the quota received by a candidate, the Electoral Commissioner shall re-distribute votes by counting the total number of votes over the quota a candidate is, then distributing those votes proportionally to the voters' second-choice candidates."

    Amendment C:
    Proposed by: Primo Order

    Rename Article IV - The Inauguration of the Executive and Legislative positions
    Change Art IV to read as follows:

    • Section I - The Electoral Commissioner shall inaugurate the President and Prime Minister on the House of Commons RMB, using the applicable oath detailed in Article IV, Section I, Subsection I or II.

      • I. Oath of office for President: "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of Thaecia, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Thaecia."

      • II. Oath of office for Prime Minister: "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of Prime Minister of Thaecia, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Thaecia."

    • Section I - The Electoral Commissioner shall inaugurate the President, Prime Minister, and Members of Parliament on the House of Commons RMB. They shall also inaugurate Senators on the Thaecian Senate RMB. This shall be done with a public statement on the applicable RMB, stating whom has won office, by the Electoral Commissioner. Once done, the individual shall take their office.

      • I. This statement must be made within the timespan provided Article II Section II and Article II Section VI.

      • II. Inauguration shall be defined as the day and/or moment an individual takes office following an election.

    • Section II - When a legislative chamber is inaugurated following an election, the Electoral Commissioner shall chair the chamber until a Speaker/Chair has been elected as per Article V. For this duration of time, they will have the permission to speak on the House of Commons and the Thaecian Senate RMB.

    • Section III - In order to take up their seat, the legislator-elect must take the oath of office detailed in Article IV, Section III, sub-section I of this law.

      • I. "I, (nation name), do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of Thaecia against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter."

    Amendment D:
    Proposed by: Primo Order

    Amend Article I, Section II to read:
    • Section II - The Electoral Commissioner shall be nominated by the President and confirmed by a simple majority vote in the House of Commons and Senate.

    We will now begin voting on the three proposed Amendments to The Electoral Commission Act of 2021.

    A - Aye
    C - Nay
    D - Nay

    A - AYE
    C - NAY
    D - NAY

    A- Aye
    C- Aye
    D- Abstain

    A: Aye
    C: Nay
    D: Nay

    A-Aye
    C-Aye
    D-Aye

    Aye
    Nay
    Nay

    Post self-deleted by Rivogna.

    Aye
    Aye
    Aye

    A- Abstain
    C- Aye
    D- Aye

    A- Aye
    C- Aye
    D- Abstain

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