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Miklania wrote:No but I can start one. Some basic ideas:

The Miklanian Navy was really in love with the original F-8 design developed by [company that will get absorbed into Nolan-Garrett]. It would be the standard fighter from the late 50's through the late 70's. It would not, however, be successful on the export market. It had many very complicated features, like the tilting wing. To fill the Miklanian government requirement for a cheap easily exported fighter, NG would simplify the design by using a redesigned, fixed wing and a new, lighter and more efficient (and simultaneously more powerful) turbofan engine. They would also use modern solid state electronics to provide equal or greater performance to the originals at lower cost. Effectively, we are talking about a hot-rodded land only evolution of the aircraft. We would push this one hard because we want to keep one of NG's factories in business long enough for them to get contracts for other aircraft. That ultimately won't happen, and this aircraft only prolongs the inevitable. I don't expect this fighter to sell to that many people. At the time of sale, the fighter would have promised low costs, even though they would be bought new, and very low maintenance costs. That would hold true until about the early 2000s, when parts would start to dry up. Realistically, you'd start cannibalizing usable aircraft around 2005.

She's based on the LTV V-1000 concept, which was basically Vought's attempt to beat out the F-5 for the US's standard "hi third world country you're not communist have some fighters" fighter.

This sounds good. Once you have a write up let me know and I'll add it to my equipment Factbook.

Miklania, how many do you think I'd be running. I think I'd have three main air bases on the coast: East, Central and West.

Menna shuli wrote:Miklania, how many do you think I'd be running. I think I'd have three main air bases on the coast: East, Central and West.

The quoted fly-away cost for the LVT V-1000 was 1.51 million USD in 'late 70s' money. I'd buy no less than 50 (3 squadrons and a few spares) and no more than 100. Extra costs (training, weapons, support equipment, supply contracts, tastefully embroidered polo shirts, etc.) would probably total between $100 mil and $150 mil in then year dollars.

Miklania wrote:The quoted fly-away cost for the LVT V-1000 was 1.51 million USD in 'late 70s' money. I'd buy no less than 50 (3 squadrons and a few spares) and no more than 100. Extra costs (training, weapons, support equipment, supply contracts, tastefully embroidered polo shirts, etc.) would probably total between $100 mil and $150 mil in then year dollars.

Easy pickings for my migs :)

Alteran republics

Thuzbekistan wrote:Easy pickings for my migs :)

HA. It's a hot-rod Crusader with better guns and better missiles. GLHF.

Alteran republics

Menna shuli

Miklania wrote:The quoted fly-away cost for the LVT V-1000 was 1.51 million USD in 'late 70s' money. I'd buy no less than 50 (3 squadrons and a few spares) and no more than 100. Extra costs (training, weapons, support equipment, supply contracts, tastefully embroidered polo shirts, etc.) would probably total between $100 mil and $150 mil in then year dollars.

I'd have less than the original purchase amount now, though, from the cannibalism and whatever air incidents may have caused losses. So let's assume we did a massive purchase and have since slowly been losing them so we're down to a lower number now. Maybe we bout 75 originally and are down to around 50 now?

A replacement program has been sitting in the 'uhitap's to do pile for years and keeps getting put off. The invasion of San Javier could encourage modernization.

If thuz has migs then I guess I need to design my own light fighter.

Menna shuli wrote:I'd have less than the original purchase amount now, though, from the cannibalism and whatever air incidents may have caused losses. So let's assume we did a massive purchase and have since slowly been losing them so we're down to a lower number now. Maybe we bout 75 originally and are down to around 50 now?

A replacement program has been sitting in the 'uhitap's to do pile for years and keeps getting put off. The invasion of San Javier could encourage modernization.

What do you think the annual operating costs in today's dollars would be, Miklania?

Menna shuli wrote:I'd have less than the original purchase amount now, though, from the cannibalism and whatever air incidents may have caused losses. So let's assume we did a massive purchase and have since slowly been losing them so we're down to a lower number now. Maybe we bout 75 originally and are down to around 50 now?

A replacement program has been sitting in the 'uhitap's to do pile for years and keeps getting put off. The invasion of San Javier could encourage modernization.

Sounds about right. 75 would give you six 12-plane squadrons plus 3 spares for training and attrition. Lose maybe 5 to accidents, and the rest cannibalized for parts.

For modernization we could offer to rebuild your existing aircraft. We don't have any really simple cheap fighter on the drawing boards anymore, so unless you want something more sophisticated, like the Seraphim, you are better off looking elsewhere. Migs or *shudders* Sukhois might be a good option if you are willing to shell out some cash. I can imagine a prince or someone spending their own (and some public) money to buy a handful of really nice Su-30s or something for a pet squadron.

Menna shuli wrote:What do you think the annual operating costs in today's dollars would be, Miklania?

Hard to say. There are an infinite number of ways to calculate the costs of aircraft. If you want a number for basic accounting purposes, go with $2 mil per aircraft per year. That assumes you fly them regularly and buy enough shells, bombs, and missiles for them to practice with.

Alteran republics

Miklania wrote:Hard to say. There are an infinite number of ways to calculate the costs of aircraft. If you want a number for basic accounting purposes, go with $2 mil per aircraft per year. That assumes you fly them regularly and buy enough shells, bombs, and missiles for them to practice with.

Which, considering MS as a nation, is probably not going to be that way.

Miklania wrote:Sounds about right. 75 would give you six 12-plane squadrons plus 3 spares for training and attrition. Lose maybe 5 to accidents, and the rest cannibalized for parts.

For modernization we could offer to rebuild your existing aircraft. We don't have any really simple cheap fighter on the drawing boards anymore, so unless you want something more sophisticated, like the Seraphim, you are better off looking elsewhere. Migs or *shudders* Sukhois might be a good option if you are willing to shell out some cash. I can imagine a prince or someone spending their own (and some public) money to buy a handful of really nice Su-30s or something for a pet squadron.

We'll need to see how the invasion pans out and the effects on my nation.

Miklania wrote:Hard to say. There are an infinite number of ways to calculate the costs of aircraft. If you want a number for basic accounting purposes, go with $2 mil per aircraft per year. That assumes you fly them regularly and buy enough shells, bombs, and missiles for them to practice with.

Perfect, thanks.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:Which, considering MS as a nation, is probably not going to be that way.

It's an easy way to do the accounts, so I'll stick with it.

Menna shuli wrote:

For the rest of your air force, I suggest handfuls (<10) of Cessna Caravans and as many similar aircraft as you can find for logistics. Sporadic purchases of civilian aircraft would likely be taking place continuously. King Airs and whatnot might be the largest logistics aircraft you buy. Plan on chartering/commandeering airliners and air freighters owned by Mennan airlines for your invasion.

Also go for a more eclectic mix of helicopters, also purchased in small batches and from a variety of sources. If you want a backbone helicopter, I strongly recommend all variants of the Gazelle. It's mostly used with a two-man flight crew for scouting and light attack, but it has three back seats that can be used for moving a few people, and it has sling-load points if you need to move something small. Old Hueys and Mi-8s are good if you want a few decent military transports. Other helicopters you might want to look at are the Alouette I, II, and III, (for light duties), the Shawnee, Frelon, Puma, and Super Frelon (for heavy lift), and civilian Jet Ranger derivatives for special purposes.

Alteran republics and Almorea

Miklania wrote:For the rest of your air force, I suggest handfuls (<10) of Cessna Caravans and as many similar aircraft as you can find for logistics. Sporadic purchases of civilian aircraft would likely be taking place continuously. King Airs and whatnot might be the largest logistics aircraft you buy. Plan on chartering/commandeering airliners and air freighters owned by Mennan airlines for your invasion.

Also go for a more eclectic mix of helicopters, also purchased in small batches and from a variety of sources. If you want a backbone helicopter, I strongly recommend all variants of the Gazelle. It's mostly used with a two-man flight crew for scouting and light attack, but it has three back seats that can be used for moving a few people, and it has sling-load points if you need to move something small. Old Hueys and Mi-8s are good if you want a few decent military transports. Other helicopters you might want to look at are the Alouette I, II, and III, (for light duties), the Shawnee, Frelon, Puma, and Super Frelon (for heavy lift), and civilian Jet Ranger derivatives for special purposes.

your knowledge of military matters really never ceases to amaze me. especially for someone who is still receiving an education (like myself)

Since its come up again, can we get a final consensus on translators in the league and other international organisations?

Almorea

Almorea wrote:your knowledge of military matters really never ceases to amaze me. especially for someone who is still receiving an education (like myself)

All you have to do to be like me is take an extra level on "the spectrum", have no social life, and read things non-stop. Easy.

Almorea

Negarakita wrote:Since its come up again, can we get a final consensus on translators in the league and other international organisations?

Assume they are present. If you want to make an explicit mention of translators, go ahead but I've always assumed my ambassador is either speaking English (since it is taught and is basically a tertiary requirement to serve in D&S's State Ministry) or they are being translated live.

Alteran republics

Thuzbekistan wrote:Easy pickings for my migs :)

Am I correct in thinking you inquired about the stealth Mig 29s a while ago?


A low-cost, multi-role fighter aircraft for the interntional export market.'


The Blackwall Harut is a new development Blackwall Aerospace, envisioning an extensive upgrade to the successful Mig-29 airframe. Keeping elements of 5th Generation aircraft in mind, the Harut is an aircraft that promises to offer good value for money - combining stealth technology and advanced aerial combat capabilities to an already battle-proven airframe.

The aircraft is designed to either be an upgrade of current Mig-29 aircraft, or can be built from scratch to the buyers specifications. Combining the proven, agile airframe of the Mig-29 - built from stealth materials with affordable but effective sensor, control and weapons systems delivers the optimum combat capability.

The weapons systems, navigation technologies and control infrastructure are all designed to extend the service life of the aircraft into the 21st Century.


Harut Fighter


Concept artwork of an early Harut design



Role

Multirole/Fighter

Generation

5th

Manufacturer

Blackwall Aerospace
Franco-albion

First Flight

9th May 2011

Introduction

2015

Status

In Service

Primary Users

Kamieniec podolski
Coryna

Produced

2015 -

Cost per Unit

Harut-A $25M
Harut-E $47M
Harut-N $50M
Harut-U $77M

Airframe

The aircraft is built with advanced composite materials to deliver a low radar profile and strong airframe. Only 15% of the aircraft’s surface is metal, delivering stealth operation and protection from radar-based systems. Pilots were included in design from the earliest stages to develop a deliberately unstable airframe that can still be flown effectively. This delivers both superior manoeuvrability at subsonic speeds and efficient supersonic capability to support the widest range of combat scenarios.

Strong, lightweight composite materials were key to the design of the Harut to give it deliberate instability. Using them means the weight of the airframe is 30% less than for traditional materials, boosting the range and performance as well as reducing the radar signature.

Each section of the airframe is carefully designed, with an aim to reduce the Radar Cross-Section (RCS) to around 25cm^2, the area of a netball. All parts of the airframe are coated with radar-absorbing paint to help further reduce the chance of detection.


Powerplant

In order to keep costs lower, the Harut would use a similar, upgraded version of the RD-33 engine. However, this engine has been tweaked and altered to produce thrust of over 53kN of dry thrust and an incredible 88kN of thrust user the afterburners.* Combined with a uniquely designed thrust-vectoring system, the RD-33-BU provides the Harut with outstanding acceleration and maneouverability.*

The RD-33-BU engine allows for lower maintanence than it's older versions, thanks to the inclusion of modern materials in the engine's construction. This allows the Harut to continue to travel at high speeds and use the engine's full potentional for extended periods of time. The engines deliver 1,000 flying hours without needing unscheduled maintenance through the use of advanced integrated Health Monitoring for class-leading reliability, maintainability and Through Life Cost.


Sensors

Technology included in the Harut comes from the same family as the technology included in their flagship aircraft, the Sariel. Combining the data from key sensors gives the pilot an autonomous ability to rapidly assess the overall tactical situation and respond efficiently to identified threats. A continual upgrade programme ensures that the Harut remains at the forefront of sensor and combat technology.

Infra-red Search and Track (IRST)
The PIRATE infrared sensor provides passive Air-to-Air target detection and tracking performance in the IRST mode for covert tracking and Air-to-Surface operations in the Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) mode.

Radar
The Captor-ME mechanically scanned radar is a best-in-class radar, offering an extensive suite of modes to meet customers’ operational requirements, as well as providing a very competitive field of regard. The Captor-ME differs from the M variant used in the Harut; the ME is smaller and less powerful.

Captor-EE is the future primary sensor on the Harut and has a full suite of Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface modes. The capacious front fuselage of the Harut allows the installation of Captor-E’s optimised array whose Field of Regard is some 50 per cent wider than traditional fixed plate systems. As with the ME, the EE is smaller and offers a slightly smaller scanning range and angle.

This wide field of regard offers significant benefits in both Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface engagements and given the large power and aperture available provides the pilot with much enhanced angular coverage compared to fixed plate systems.

Air-to-Air Features

  • Search Modes - Range While Search (RWS), Velocity Search (VS) and multiple target Track While Scan (TWS)

  • Lock-Follow Modes, which are tailored for long range tracking and short range tracking for use in visual identification or gun attacks

  • Air Combat Acquisition Modes allowing a choice of boresight, vertical scan HUD field of view or slaved acquisition

Air-to-Ground Features

  • Search Modes - Ground Map, High Resolution Map, Ground Moving Target Identification and Sea Surface Search and Track While Scan

  • Track Modes - Fixed Target Track and Moving Target Track

  • Air-to-Surface Ranging


Cockpit


Throughout the design of the Blackwall Harut, the needs of the single seat pilot have been paramount. This has meant high levels of attention to the control and information interfaces throughout the unique glass cockpit, from the head-up, head-down and head-out systems to all-round vision. High workload situations were analysed to establish information priorities and automate tasks.

The advanced cockpit design and layout is based on an extensive series of formal assessments in a rapid prototype facility, undertaken by operational pilots from air forces flying the Mig-29. The cockpit and interface is designed to be similar to that of a Mig-29, but continues to use up-to-date hardware and interfaces. Using and upgrading the advanced digital technology not only enhances operation and survivability, but also simplifies aircraft maintenance.

Other features such as Direct Voice Input (DVI) and Hands On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) control functions have been implemented on the Harut to drastically reduce the pilot’s workload. Voice + Throttle And Stick (VTAS) enables single pilot operations even in the most demanding Air-to-Air, Air-to-Surface and swing-role missions.

Head Up Display (HUD)
The Haruts’s wide angle head up display (HUD) provides the pilot with stable, accurate, high integrity, low latency eyes-out guidance in a compact package. The fully digital HUD offers high performance that is compatible with night vision and laser protection goggles.

Head Down Display System (HDDS)
Three full colour multi-function head down displays (HDDS) are used for the overall tactical situation, presenting the attack situation, attack formats, map displays and air traffic procedures, in addition to system status and checklists.

Navigation Sensors
The latest sensor technology supports automated and inherently covert operation down to 100ft. The Harut’s navigation aids include a global positioning system (GPS) for full digital interface with individual satellite tracking channels and improved anti-jam capabilities. The package also includes an inertial navigation system with GPS. In addition, the navigation system features integrated lateral cueing and vertical commands, ensuring safe manoeuvre with 3D situational awareness.

Flight Control
The flight control system (FCS) is a full authority and quadruplex digital system which allows carefree handling and manoeuvring in all situations. Its intuitive operation is designed to enable the pilot to concentrate on the tactical tasks and to fly the aircraft 'head-up' in combination with the HOTAS (Hand-on-Throttle-and-Stick) concept applied to cockpit design. Automated Emergency recovery features have also been embodied in the system design to ensure maximum safety of operation.

Multifunctional Information Distribution System (MIDS)
The MIDS high capacity digital information distribution system allows secure exchange of real-time data between a wide variety of users, including all the components of a tactical air force and, where appropriate, land and naval forces.

Defensive Aids Sub-System (DASS)*
The DASS suite comprises wing-tip Electronic Support Measures and Electronic Counter Measures pods (ESM/ECM), missile warners, chaff and flare dispenser and an optional laser warning system.

Upgrades in computing power will support continuous protection from future threats, to enhance the Harut’s survivability and greatly increase overall mission effectiveness.


Weapons

As well as Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles (SRAAM’s) and the 27mm cannon, or the 30mm cannon, the Harut carries the latest beyond-visual-range (BVR) Air-to-Air missile technology. Soon the METEOR advanced long-range missile will provide the largest No Escape Zone of any Air-to-Air weapon, resulting in a long stand-off range and high probability of interception to ensure air superiority and pilot survivability. Guidance is provided by an active radar seeker with mid-course updates via data link.

The Laser Designator Pod (LDP)* enables precise location of targets and guidance of Air-to-Surface weapons.

For ground operations, the Harut has also been upgraded with Paveway IV to provide high levels of operational flexibility. The combat proven dual-mode guidance system, coupled with height of burst and penetrating capability, enable the decision of target engagement to be made right up to the point of release.

The Harut will continue to prove its effective throughout its service life, as it will see the constant integration of new, smart weapons in accordance with the demands of current and future customers.

The Harut will also be the first aircraft to feature full, native compatability with Blackwall's range of anti-air missiles (JAMM).


*Only available in the Harut-U variant

Variants

Harut-A
The Harut-A is the cheapest, standard version of the aircraft. An original Mig-29 airframe is required by the buyer, as the Harut-A only an upgrade of the aircraft. Featuring the same airframe, the aircraft comes with the standard RD-33 engine seen in the Mig-29, which produces 142kN of thrust (with after-burner). The Harut-A differs from other variants, as it is not natively compatible with JAMM and CAASM munitions. It is the most cost effective Harut product offered by Blackwall.

Harut-E
The Harut-E is the intended export variant of the Harut-A. It features all the same avionics and engines as the Harut-A, but is built from scratch and does not require an original Mig-29 airframe.

Harut-N
The navalised version, the Harut-N, features a strengthened airframe for CATOBAR operations and is designed to be launched from a large carrier. Also featuring foldable wings, the Harut-N is a compact and cost effective solution for air defence and strike operations. As the foldable wings and body strengthening adds weight to the Harut, it is not as agile as the Harut-A/E.

Harut-U
The Harut-U is the top-of-the-line (and most expensive) variant of the Harut family. Custom built by Blackwall, this fighter features the thrust vectoring RD-33-FAU engines and Sariel-grade avionics unavailable in other versions. The Harut-U is the deadliest variant of the Harut and is only available for export to close allies of Franco-albion.


Operators


An unmarked prototype Harut aircraft, featuring based metal Paintscheme

Kamieniec podolski

  • Sowhary Air Force has 26 Harut-As

Coryna

  • Coryna Air Force has 50 Harut-Es


Specifications

General Characteristics (Harut-A)

  • Crew: 1

  • Length: 18.7m

  • Wingspan: 12.0m

  • Height: 5.8m

  • Powerplant: 1x RD-33FA 108kN (157kN) after-burning turbofans
    (Harut-U: 1x RD-33-FAU 88kN (133kN) after-burning turbofans)

Performance

  • Maximum Speed: Mach 1.8
    (Harut-U: Mach 1.95)

  • Combat Range: 1,200 km with typical loadout

  • Ferry Range: 2,100 km with one external drop tanks
    (Harut-U: 2,500km with two external drop tanks)

  • Service Ceiling: 17,500m
    (Harut-U: 18,000m+)

Armament

Guns:

  • x1 30 mm ROC revolver cannon or

  • x1 27 mm ROC revolver cannons

Hardpoints:

  • 13x hardpoints in total; 4x internal hardpoints (light duty), 2x internal hardpoints (medium duty) and 4x underwing hardpoints, able to carry combinations of:

Missiles:

  • AIM-9 Sidewinder; or

  • AIM-120 AMRAAM; or

  • AIM-132 ASRAAM; or

  • IRIS-T; or

  • MBDA Meteor; or

  • AGM-65 Maverick; or

  • AGM-88 HARM; or

  • JAMM/JAMM-ER

Bombs:

  • 500 lb Paveway IV; or

  • JP233 or MW-1 munition dispensers (for runway cratering operations); or

  • Small Diameter Bomb; or

  • 250/500lb CAASM Guided Bombs

Other:

  • Up to 1× drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/flight time
    (Harut-U: Up to 2x drop tanks for ferry flight/extented range/flight time

Read dispatch

Athara magarat and Thuzbekistan

Alteran republics wrote:Am I correct in thinking you inquired about the stealth Mig 29s a while ago?

You took the one communist aircraft I actually like, and made it hideous.

Alteran republics

Dormill and Stiura wrote:Assume they are present. If you want to make an explicit mention of translators, go ahead but I've always assumed my ambassador is either speaking English (since it is taught and is basically a tertiary requirement to serve in D&S's State Ministry) or they are being translated live.

My understanding is that the UN uses live translators. I also can't imagine that many countries send a diplomat to the League if that diplomat can't speak and translate English fluently.

Miklania wrote:My understanding is that the UN uses live translators. I also can't imagine that many countries send a diplomat to the League if that diplomat can't speak and translate English fluently.

Unless both the translator and the ambassador are not entirely fluent, at which point I'm pretty sure the organization can provide a translator. In any case for the League itself languages are either translated live or the speaker is speaking English.

New totzka

The Keverite used a mix of English and french though? Isn't the issue not so much that a translator wasn't explicitly used but that the Kevarite delegate might just be speaking in a different dialect of french?

Almorea

New totzka wrote:The Keveraian (Keverite?) used a mix of English and french though? Isn't the issue not so much that a translator wasn't explicitly used but that the Kevaraian delegate might just be speaking in a different dialect of french?

On an IC basis, both my ambassador and the Survinian have a right to be annoyed at the mispronunciation rather than the dialect. That was an intentional point Ains' mentioned on the Discord that Keverites try to pride themselves with their use of French even though French fluency is little more than a minority. To quote him directly, "Heads up, Keverai does not speak french. They wanna sound french though, they're more ipachi than french."

Miklania, Athara magarat, New totzka, Negarakita, and 1 otherAlmorea

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