by Max Barry

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Lagrodia wrote:Not the majority of the party now, but the actual left wing by and large does. Down the line that part may grow to be a majority (or perhaps pro life populists will help), as the Republicans begin to support abortion.

Yeah, perhaps on economics (which I support), but on, say... abortion, the GOP has certainly, to their credit, swung rightward, and perhaps on a few other social issues here and there.

I didn't even bring up social issues because I figured that went without saying-on abortion, the GOP was pushing an amendment to the Constitution to ban it in Reagan's first term within a decade of Roe, which seems more robust than the current majority not even being able to get a vote on defunding Planned Parenthood, but I'd say at the least they've stayed relatively steady, while the Democrats have absolutely moved hard left from a mixed occasionally pro-life party to "Safe, legal, and rare" to the insanity in New York and Virginia.

On marital, sexual, and narcotic social issues, I don't think there's any argument at all that both parties have swung just massively to the left.

Lagrodia wrote:

On another topic, I was slowly losing my pro-gun sentiments and becoming open to gun control. With the riots, however, I am now as extreme as ever. We need to be able to defend ourselves.

I'm quite glad to hear that. I've heard some optimistic arguments that the pandemic and riots are going to kill gun control as an issue for the left for years to come, but I'm nowhere near that optimistic. New gun owners, and more people discovering that the media has been lying to them about the actual state of gun laws in America, are both good things, but both short memories and high hypocrisy standards are going to dull most of that benefit.

"Abolish the police" and "only the police should have guns" are obviously fundamentally opposed concepts, but that's never really stopped anyone before, and the biggest impact that comes out of this is going to be a doubling down on gun control efforts as crime rises.

There are not many issues where both the strength of the media and their utter irresponsibility can be seen than in quizzing the American people on a point of fact. A 2019 Marist poll asked whether the per capita gun murder rate was higher 25 years ago or today. In reality, the rate has plummeted to barely half of what it was in the early 1990s, a massive sustained reduction in crime.

In the media-fed reality, 59% of people said that it was higher, and only 12% said that it was lower. (23% of people said it was the same, which is still completely wrong, and at least 6% were honest and said they did not know.) The homicide rate is cut in half and only 12% of people realize it. (A whopping 73% of Democrats said that crime was higher now. Interestingly, Independents were the most knowledgeable on the lower rate, but still only had a measly 18% realize it.) (There was also a very large and interesting gender gap as well. Men thought, 2.5 to 1, that crime had gotten higher. Women thought that 14.2 to 1.)

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_1902121446.pdf#page=3

I get critical of media bias often, see my ranting on PolitiFact just a bit ago, but I'd be less livid about that if they actually succeeded in informing the public-they plainly do not. This is not even a civics question where most Americans don't know what the First Amendment says or something like that, this is literally a question of the ability to observe reality-and we end up seeing that the overwhelming majority are stuck in a reality of the media's creation.

All that is to say, as I realize that I veered a bit off topic, is that things are going to get worse for gun rights going forward. A media that has just outright gaslighted the American people on crime is going to be vastly worse when crime starts picking up as a result of the collapse of either community trust, police forces, or both, and the gun controllers (funded by 'throw minorities against the wall' Bloomberg) are not going to be delayed for a second by the hypocrisy of sending police to take people's guns while calling for their abolition.

Basilicus, did not have the time to make a full response, but it'll be coming.

Phydios wrote:However, I am not sure how that doctrine conflicts with Sola Scriptura or Solus Christus. I certainly don't see a contradiction. And I'm not sure what you mean by verbum factum est, since that seems to translate to "Word of the". Perhaps you meant verbum caro hic factum est, "the Word was made flesh"?

You're right, I should have included "caro" to make more sense, but "verbum factum est" is a valid participle and still has a logical translation: the Word having been brought forth. My point is that everything follows logically from the incarnation not scripture per se which is the word of God but not the Word of God. Sola scriptura was the doctrine of the Arians, whilst the orthodox appealed to Christ in the Church as do the Ecumenical Councils. Consider, for example, how the Council of Jerusalem does not appeal to scripture per se when it makes its decisions, but to God and the Holy Spirit (my Protestant pastor even strangely argued that the Council was against scripture even though it's...in scripture). All subsequent Councils do the same.
I'm not sure I have a problem with Solus Christus in general, it just seems a bit reductionist to say when Christ, in fact, reigns through men and, by extension, through the Church made up of his disciples through all time. I suppose a theologian would say we never can talk about Christ by himself because Christ is always within others and within the Church.

Basilicus wrote:Domestic elections:

Basilicus wrote:Not because of his platform, but because of his temperament. Corporate candidates tend to be blander and less offensive (on that I agree with you; being able to have a temperamental "control" group is probably not realistic, but that isn't a fault in the platform; but it also makes it harder to turn out the base). His "vulture capitalist" past I think actually hurt him with independents in 2012.

I think his platform still has something to do with it-you made the point earlier already about that being too conservative could be a problem in a state like Virginia and that going liberal helped in MA and MD, I think it's a simple step from that to note that populism is more popular in some states/demographics and that a squishy corporate Republican platform does have voters that like it more.

Basilicus wrote:

Here I disagree with you. Bernie Sanders is definitely a populist, and the media, as "left" as it was (i.e. corporate with a liberal face) was hard-pressed to do anything to undermine him, apart from a few questionable, oddball comments like praising Cuba (which, to be sure, definitely deserve media attention). Mostly they focused on explaining what you mentioned, that his populist proposals were unrealistic and would cost too much (not in raising the debt as with Trump, but in raised taxes). They did try and make him look like a loony toon, but not because of his temperament. The media will use whatever it can work with to protect the more centrist status quo candidates.

Left-populist and right-populist are two different animals, at least in the form they take in the West today, because Sanders-like left-populism (I'd also not put the populist label on him so readily) does not have the kind of cultural grievance in its core issues that right-populism does. Sanders does not really care either way about political correctness, he's all-in on the economy, but a right populist has a big part of their appeal on being actively against it, which tends to lead to the sorts of comments that are turned on by the media and get them hobbled in an election.

Basilicus wrote:

The debt has been a topic of doom and gloom for 30 years and has had no measurable impact on the economy. As a percentage of GDP, America's debt is still much lower than that of the other G8 countries (except for Russia, which has one of the lowest in the world). I think America is such an integral part of the global economy that the "bill coming due" is a bit of a phantom.

Even if the possibility of a crash from the massive outstanding liabilities is removed, which is pretty optimistic, it's the day-to-day of the growing debt that is slowing pulling the budget down. Interest rates are fairly low at present, and yet simple interest on the debt is 325 billion dollars a year-an insane amount, and one that is only growing, the CBO estimates that it will hit 3.0% of GDP by the end of the decade, and the CRFB is more cynical, estimating that it will exceed a trillion per year by then.

The global financial market is incredibly complicated, predicting most anything is difficult, but predicting a doomsday is not necessary when the guaranteed outcome of constantly rising debts is a budget more and more dominated by dead spending on interest payments, which by necessity are going to have to lead to some combination of higher taxes, lower spending, and more economic pain.

Basilicus wrote:

I feel like this is a tad misleading because Clinton was a very big supporter (you could say almost emblematic) of globalism, free trade, and Wall Street. To say they didn't support Trump over these issues, but over their aversion to Clinton, glosses over her own positions on these issues. Perhaps a lot of those Democratic voters who stayed home you mentioned did so because of that, rather than vote for Trump.

Clinton came out pretty hard against free trade-she turned against the TPP even while Obama was still trying to make it happen. Those voters did not stay home for Obama, but they did for her, which makes it seem that trade was probably not the deciding factor, at least not in that direction.

Basilicus wrote:

Again, I think a populist agenda would work just fine in Virginia, it just has to be a state populist agenda and not a federal one. Something like increased public spending on infrastructure. Immigration and trade would help Virginia too, but not in tangible enough ways to sway undecideds.

I guess I'd have to ask-what would be the data point that would convince you that such an agenda would not work? Theory is all well and good, but in practice you want to see some evidence of success, and if the target is too narrow, then there's not really ever any chance to make an empirical assessment. Sort of like the 'not real communism' argument, if people widely identified as populists such as Trump and Stewart are not real populists for the purposes of assessing the movement because they were national populists rather than state populists or some such thing, then it's going to be hard to confirm or reject the theory one way or another waiting for a very certain strain.

Basilicus wrote:

Margin, perhaps; I just remembered Scott's total being over 50% and DeSantis being 49%.

Yeah, it was margin, I think something like .4 to .2, too lazy to check at the moment but functionally identical in either case, marginal differences do not matter too much.

Basilicus wrote:

This could certainly be true, it's hard to say with certainty which is the case. Just based on rural turnout I assumed it was a Trump effect.

I guess this is another Rorschach test, where you see luck and I see strategy. But it was only when Trump found out Romney was not running that he announced his candidacy in 2015, which seems like deliberate strategy. As for 2000, I don't think that counts because he dropped out before the Reform Party primaries were over (and he probably would have won if he had stayed in, but the Reform Party was too chaotic and I think that convinced him to drop out, especially when Jesse Ventura exited the party).

He was probably wise to drop out in 2000, I think that was a good call on his part. As for 2016, unless I am recalling incorrectly Romney announced that he was not running very early in the process, before any GOP candidates had jumped in, and Trump was one of the last to do so. It could still be strategy, but the timing does not seem to sync up too well.

Basilicus wrote:

Which one? I was talking about the '92 election.

I was talking about 2016. Basically that Obama would have beaten Trump head-to-head and Romney would have beaten Hillary head-to-head. I think those elections were primarily dependent on the quality and popularity (or lack thereof) of the Democratic candidate.

Basilicus wrote:

Leverage on getting his priorities onto the agenda in Congress like immigration and infrastructure.

Vietnam, Iraq, Germany, and multipolarism:

A government which completely fell apart after the US backed a disastrous military coup in '63 during the Kennedy administration, necessitating increased US ground involvement afterwards.

Basilicus wrote:

I have yet to see any evidence of that. Iraq is bordering on total disintegration along ethnic lines.

In terms of the intervention itself, at least, the American one was less painful than in Vietnam or the Soviets in Afghanistan. None of them worked out great in terms of leaving a stable favorable government.

Basilicus wrote:

On paper. It was highly dependent on Soviet military equipment and advisors, and I don't know how it could be viewed as anything other than a satellite. Compare that to East Germany which had the best military in Eastern Europe, and several Eastern bloc countries which had very powerful economies, unlike Iraq. As you pointed out, the Iraqi military was unable to achieve anything against a still-consolidating Iranian government post-revolution, despite massive advantages in arms and equipment.

Sure, I wouldn't compare them to East Germany, nor someone like France my rating it was as a top dog among the non-powers. I would not call it significantly more dependent on the Soviets than Egypt or another Middle Eastern nation that bought primarily comblock equipment, and they certainly maintained a much more independent foreign policy than the U.S.S.R.'s satellites.

Basilicus wrote:

You are right in what you say about self-interested nations not being likely to work together, but in all of the issues I cited, their failures worked to their own disinterest. If they had been more intelligent, even as greedy and as selfish as could be, they would have seen that working together was better than ignoring obvious threats. And I do not think that is an issue of the system, but of leadership. And this same hinging point is the biggest weakness of the unipolar system. I return to my policeman analogy: I'd rather have a bunch of police of various levels of competence patrolling a beat than just one semi-competent one. You have to trust that one country can do the right thing in all instances, and that has never happened. I can't think of a single "good" foreign policy move the US has engaged in post-war. From China in 1948 to Syria in the present day, they have all been a string of failures. Systems like the Holy Alliance and Concert Europe have, in my opinion, a much more positive record. Who stopped the Georgian war in 2008, Bush? Nope, it was France. Bush was completely blindsided. Relying on one power to take care of everything is a recipe for disaster. Better to have 8 powers on the watch and hope that at least one will come through and rally the others. It only takes one good leader to get the rest in line, such as Metternich, Bismarck (ironically), or Churchill.

I don't necessarily disagree with this either, but it comes down to the same point-if you need to rely on high intelligence and good leadership to make the system work, the system is not going to work, and it is that much harder to have a collection of intelligent and skilled leaders in a multipolar system where a couple of dunderheads can blow the whole thing up. I would willingly compare the U.S.'s foreign policy record to the concert because even as, as you say, it has had plenty of failures, its failures have mattered far less. Failures in the bipolar system led to proxy wars like Vietnam. Failures in the unipolar system have led to squabbling interventions in the Middle East. Failures in the multipolar system led to two planet-shaking World Wars. Even if we discount the World Wars, the biggest failures of the multipolar system, it still saw multiple conflicts between great powers, something that neither the bipolar nor unipolar system has. The incompetence in those systems has simply had less dramatic consequence.

Basilicus wrote:

I still think France would have melted through German defenses (I will concede that their leadership probably would have been unable to effectuate this; if someone like De Gaulle had been in charge, then definitely). Like Czechoslovakia, Hitler's generals believed they were still years behind schedule in preparedness and were so against his accelerated time table that they contemplated getting rid of him in 1938. Many German divisions were still using wooden cut-outs of guns instead of actual weapons.

I'm a little doubtful of that last claim-but as to the general status of their militarization, the earlier start plainly favored Germany, which was actually in a state of trying to cool off their buildup for fear of overheating the economy before the war's start, which would be a major factor in Germany production not actually peaking until late in the war. Just in materiel, The Luftwaffe in 1938 outnumbered both the British and French air forces combined, by 1939, that balance had switched. The UK had not even kitted out its very first (and only) armored division until December of 1938, and both they and France absolutely used the respite to arm up, Chamberlain had UK defense spending hitting record levels in pre-war 1939, while Hitler was actively seeking conflict as quickly as possible.

Chamberlain is one of the most unfairly beat-on political figures in history. The Western Allies absolutely made good use of the time he bought them, and the assumed order of WWII is not as solid as it is retroactively viewed as. Today everyone loves to bring up Munich and Chamberlain to criticize any use of appeasement, but if they had started a World War over the Czechs, we would look back at it today even more harshly as a failure of hawkishness and a failure to use diplomacy.

U.S. politics:

Roborian wrote:[. . .]conservative could be a problem in a state like Virginia and that going liberal helped in MA and MD, I think it's a simple step from that to note that populism is more popular in some states/demographics and that a squishy corporate Republican platform does have voters that like it more.

I don't think populism is on the left-right spectrum, so I disagree that populism only works in some places.

Roborian wrote:Even if the possibility of a crash from the massive outstanding liabilities is removed, which is pretty optimistic, it's the day-to-day of the growing debt that is slowing pulling the budget down. Interest rates are fairly low at present, and yet simple interest on the debt is 325 billion dollars a year-an insane amount, and one that is only growing, the CBO estimates that it will hit 3.0% of GDP by the end of the decade, and the CRFB is more cynical, estimating that it will exceed a trillion per year by then.

The fact that most other developed economies of comparable scale have debts that are as high or higher, I'm not sure how that would shake out. Everyone is borrowing from everyone, and I think ultimately it all cancels out. I'm not interested in that aspect of economics, so I have no data to back that up; but for instance, roughly 25% of the national debt is owed by the government to itself, and the United States holds debt of countries that have their debt. Interest payments will certainly get high, but as that becomes true for most of the developed world, I think there will be room for "creative" solutions.

Roborian wrote:Clinton came out pretty hard against free trade[ . . .]

To the belief of no one. Everyone knows she called it the "gold standard" and they cracked down Stalin-style on anyone who tried to bring it up at the Democratic Convention. And comparing her position to Obama doesn't matter; no one challenged Obama's policy on trade because his stance was mirrored by his opponents. It wasn't relevant.

Roborian wrote:I guess I'd have to ask-what would be the data point that would convince you that such an agenda would not work?

There's no data point that exists, there's too much evidence throughout history that populism is always the most effective method of garnering public support. I never said that Stewart and Trump weren't "real" populists, I just said that Trump tailored his message to his audience (which is literally the only real requirement of populism, "give the people what they want"); Stewart offered Virginia voters nothing they were asking for. Something that is popular on the national level is not going to be popular everywhere--but that doesn't mean populism doesn't work, it means that you've got to speak the language of the people you're campaigning to. Julius Caesar, the "founding father" of populism and arguably the most successful populist in history, probably wouldn't have to much luck if he had tried to court the Persian people instead of the Romans. That doesn't mean populism only works in Rome, it just means that a Roman message will fall on deaf, Persian ears. "When in Virginia, do as the Virginians do."

Roborian wrote:As for 2016, unless I am recalling incorrectly Romney announced that he was not running very early in the process, before any GOP candidates had jumped in, and Trump was one of the last to do so. It could still be strategy, but the timing does not seem to sync up too well.

Romney reaffirmed his intention not to run in January 2015 (after previously weighing a third run), which was interpreted at that time as a boon to Jeb Bush, or possibly Jeb's rivals (which ended up being true). Trump did not renew his contract with NBC for the 'Celebrity Apprentice' the very next month (February), raising speculation he was going to run for president. He then announced he was forming an exploratory committee on March 18th the month after that. So I think the timeline syncs up very well.

Sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romney-out-a-boost-for-jeb-bush-and-who-else/2015/01/30/22a4bfdc-a8a4-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20150710152015/http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20150227%2FNEWS0605%2F150229334%2F1010%2FArt
https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/03/nbc-still-planning-for-apprentice-despite-donald-trumps-presidential-claims-204171

Roborian wrote:[. . .]they certainly maintained a much more independent foreign policy than the U.S.S.R.'s satellites.

Certainly I don't mean that they were a virtual puppet government under the Brezhnev Doctrine; I just mean that they were a satellite in the sense they were in the USSR's "orbit".

Roborian wrote:[. . .]it still saw multiple conflicts between great powers, something that neither the bipolar nor unipolar system hasThe incompetence in those systems has simply had less dramatic consequence.

Yet. The unipolar system has only been around for 29 years. The multipolar system had 297 years to screw up. Also I would argue that in modern times people are less likely to go to war because quality of life has improved so much. I haven't done any statistical analysis to prove my theory, but I would reason that the effectiveness of superpower technology and improved standard of living has made people around the world more reticent to gamble on a war. I also think the world wars kind of shocked people into being more cautious.

The unipolar system also doesn't have the same successes. The Boxer Rebellion intervention was in many ways a masterclass in successful multipolar cooperation between the Great Powers. The coalitions led by the US today rely disproportionately on US resources and, I would argue, is unsustainable. If not economically, then politically.

Lastly, as I said, I think a tripolar system works better than generic multipolarism with a greater multitude of powers. During the lead up to both world wars there were several powers in play; during WWI they were all of comparable strength; during WWII they were all of comparable weakness--Hitler's success was less a product of Germany's strength than it was the product of his neighbors' weakness. The strongest period of multipolarism was during the original Concert, when the Holy Alliance of Austria, Prussia, and Germany (with occasional help from France and Britain) were able to neutralize Napoleon during the Hundred Days and stabilize insurrections in Spain and Naples.

It only fell apart when the 1848 Revolutions destabilized Austria and Napoleon III took over in France, starting off a chain-reaction of destabilizing nationalism until Bismarck defeated Napoleon, unified Germany, and began the second phase of the Concert under the League of the Three Emperors. It was only after Bismarck's dismissal in 1890 that the second Concert began to deteriorate, and conflict between Austria and Russia would eventually lead to the first world war. Under Metternich and Bismarck, the nearly 100 years of the Concert were largely successful, with a "brief" 23 year intermission under Napoleon III, who destabilized the system in an attempt to remodel France into Europe's dominant power (which it was, at least until his defeat by Bismarck). That still leaves 76 years of relative calm compared to the chaos of the Cold War and "Pax Americana".

Roborian wrote:I'm a little doubtful of that last claim-but as to the general status of their militarization[. . .]
the earlier start plainly favored Germany, which was actually in a state of trying to cool off their buildup for fear of overheating the economy before the war's start, which would be a major factor in Germany production not actually peaking until late in the war. Just in materiel, The Luftwaffe in 1938 outnumbered both the British and French air forces combined, by 1939, that balance had switched. The UK had not even kitted out its very first (and only) armored division until December of 1938, and both they and France absolutely used the respite to arm up, Chamberlain had UK defense spending hitting record levels in pre-war 1939, while Hitler was actively seeking conflict as quickly as possible.

Chamberlain is one of the most unfairly beat-on political figures in history. The Western Allies absolutely made good use of the time he bought them, and the assumed order of WWII is not as solid as it is retroactively viewed as. Today everyone loves to bring up Munich and Chamberlain to criticize any use of appeasement, but if they had started a World War over the Czechs, we would look back at it today even more harshly as a failure of hawkishness and a failure to use diplomacy.

True, Hitler is slammed for his decisions on Stalingrad, while some historians argued he actually bought valuable time for the Wehrmacht to regroup on the Eastern Front. So the same could, conceivably, at least on an academic level, be true for Chamberlain. Still, that argument can cut both ways: it can just as easily be said that Chamberlain bought time for Germany to mobilize too, and Germany's rearmament was proceeding much more rapidly than the Western allies.

I am interested in becoming orthodox...

How do I do that though? How do I contact them? I sent a mail to the local temple in my city, but did not get a response... I don't know what to do and how to do that... I am currently a Jehovah's Witness...

Under ledzia wrote:I am interested in becoming orthodox...

How do I do that though? How do I contact them? I sent a mail to the local temple in my city, but did not get a response... I don't know what to do and how to do that... I am currently a Jehovah's Witness...

While I am not Orthodox myself, here's my suggested advice: Study why you want to change from JW to Orthodox. If you're settled that changing is a good thing, then go to your local Orthodox church and speak to the priest one on one. See how worship is conducted in the church, if you could get used to that, can you communicate with the other people there, etc. There are myriad fundamental doctrinal and dogmatic differences between JW and the Orthodox, and while I firmly believe that it would be a good change, it's something that you yourself have to decide. So find your local EO church, speak to the priest about your convictions and let him lead you from that point on. He'll tell you how to be received into the Orthodox Church, when you can complete the sacraments of initiation, etc. And above all, pray and discern if this is right for you, without any pressure or time constraint.

Lastly, I may be wrong, but I believe The Gallant Old Republic is Orthodox? If so, you may wish to telegram him/her with your questions.

Under ledzia wrote:I am interested in becoming orthodox...

That's great! Christ's other lung! Ut Unum Sint!

As Horatius Cocles says, your best option is to attend a service, observe, and speak with the priest afterwards.

Horatius Cocles and Under ledzia

While covid, protests, and riots rock the nation, the U.S. House busied itself today with an unconstitutional bill to pack the U.S. Senate.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2020/roll122.xml

The Douglass Commonwealth, as it would be called, would be 4% as large as the next smallest state. It would be 15% as populous as the median state. The federal government would shower it with more than four times as many funds as any other state and more than seven times as many funds as the average state.

And did I mention that it would violate the Constitution? A fact that everyone explicitly or implicitly acknowledged as recently as the 1980s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment

Culture of Life wrote:While covid, protests, and riots rock the nation, the U.S. House busied itself today with an unconstitutional bill to pack the U.S. Senate.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2020/roll122.xml

The Douglass Commonwealth, as it would be called, would be 4% as large as the next smallest state. It would be 15% as populous as the median state. The federal government would shower it with more than four times as many funds as any other state and more than seven times as many funds as the average state.

And did I mention that it would violate the Constitution? A fact that everyone explicitly or implicitly acknowledged as recently as the 1980s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment

Both major parties only care about the Constitution as far as it advances their agenda.

Under ledzia

Horatius Cocles wrote:While I am not Orthodox myself, here's my suggested advice: Study why you want to change from JW to Orthodox. If you're settled that changing is a good thing, then go to your local Orthodox church and speak to the priest one on one. See how worship is conducted in the church, if you could get used to that, can you communicate with the other people there, etc. There are myriad fundamental doctrinal and dogmatic differences between JW and the Orthodox, and while I firmly believe that it would be a good change, it's something that you yourself have to decide. So find your local EO church, speak to the priest about your convictions and let him lead you from that point on. He'll tell you how to be received into the Orthodox Church, when you can complete the sacraments of initiation, etc. And above all, pray and discern if this is right for you, without any pressure or time constraint.

Lastly, I may be wrong, but I believe The Gallant Old Republic is Orthodox? If so, you may wish to telegram him/her with your questions.

The biggest reason is the doctrinal explanation of leadership. I agree with the orthodox about the church being the people with equal leaders and more apostolic approach, even though I do not agree with many of decisions of the church in the past, but neither do I agree with decisions of JWs from the past.

I also believe that religion is (quoting an orthodox priest) "Organisation made by us for us to preserve faith" and I happen to not agree in the magical view of JWs regarding prophecy, but rather the symbolical such as in the Orthodox church. Although JWs happen to slowly change the magical view to the symbolical, sometimes I just don't agree with their interpretation of symbolism, since I have read a lot of Jewish theological philosophy, which corresponds more with the orthodox than JWs.

The use of name Jehovah is in my opinion not actually anything making JWs better, since Orthodox can and do use it, just not commonly and so do most churches. Doing it personally, or using the more eastern version of it which I think is more proper, doesn't make a big difference. Then there is the elephant in the room... Trinity and John chapter 1. It is complicated and it is a cause in a lot of schisms and protestant uprisings in the church making different churches see trinity differently or adopt arianism, but I have found a very inteligent and wise priest in orthodoxy who said "arguing about trinity is like arguing about the morality of sex while being three. We know little about the nature of God and our words lack the power to describe it properly, which means all can be wrong and all can be right at the same time. What's more important is accepting the greatness of God without trying to tear it down in the name of winning an argument".

Iconography is another elephant in the room. I myself learned a bit about it in orthodoxy and I learned that there is tons of conrtroversy around it. The church doesn't accept worhip towards them and uses them for educational purposes with high restrictions on them and in what way they can be used. Prayer to them is officially heretical, same with exaltation of them, as only God may be exalted and not a piece of paper with paint on it, but there have been two movements in the past that starteg a huge controversy and ended in an anathema. One movement called Bogomisilm (gnostic movement) decided that God can be channeled through anything, thus worship of objects is not idolatry if the correct God is worshipped and Iconoclasm which said the opposite, that all icons must be destroyed in order to stop idolatry.

To this day Orthodox church calls Icons depictions of the holy figures "educational" and not vessels for worship, which makes them no different than illustrations of heavens or Jesus in Watchtowers. The difference being that Orthodox use very old styles for them and have more respect toward them, which does make sense since they are usually ancient or at least medieval artifacts.

Also it's hard to argue that a translation of The Bible is better than original Aramaic, Greek or Hebrew, which are used in orthodoxy to this day, while translations are nonetheless common and accepted.

Horatius Cocles wrote:

Lastly, I may be wrong, but I believe The Gallant Old Republic is Orthodox? If so, you may wish to telegram him/her with your questions.

While I'm not an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I am an Ordinariate Catholic/English Catholic/Anglican Catholic (there's a dispute over what is the best or proper name for us, since we're still very new). Former Evangelical and Methodist. Also a 'him'.

Culture of Life, Horatius Cocles, and Under ledzia

Under ledzia wrote:I am interested in becoming orthodox...

How do I do that though? How do I contact them? I sent a mail to the local temple in my city, but did not get a response... I don't know what to do and how to do that... I am currently a Jehovah's Witness...

Be persistent if your conscience is determined. I tried to contact a couple of Catholic churches in my day and heard nothing, but, to paraphrase a priest, devils can be good at jamming communications if they so choose. Find a way to attend to get a taste of what it's really like. Perhaps attend a few times until you're comfortable. Then try to approach someone in the congregation or else the priest himself and tell them you're interested. There's a good chance they will approach you before then (once I was practically tackled at the door of a small fringe schismatic Anglican church eager to get a new member and kindly questioned by the priest and multiple lay members). I took the leap after consciously attending a Catholic school, attending mass almost daily, and approaching one of the priests at lunch. That was after a few years of reading church history and about 'high church' stuff which had already made up my mind, going to mass just confirmed that this was indeed what I had been looking for.
Anecdote: humorously the pew Missal were so complex and hard to follow along with I just had to listen. I memorized all the responses in less than a month, but when I saw them in print afterwards I kept having to make slight corrections since my hearing stinks sometimes.

Culture of Life, Horatius Cocles, and Under ledzia

Happy Sunday everyone,

You might like to check out the NationStates Christian Community Church’s Worship Service and resources!

God bless you all!!



Church Service

OPENING

Check out these: LinkOnline Church Resources

Join the discussion of this week's service at our LinkChurch Discord Channel

SONGS
LinkHow Great Thou Art, God of Wonders, Hosanna & Be Thou My Vision.
Performed by Stacy Feyer Salo at Mars Hill Bible Church, Michigan

READING 1
LinkLuke 24

READING 2
LinkRomans 8


MESSAGE

LinkSunday Service - Ashburton Baptist Church, Melbourne, Australia


REFLECTION

PRAYER

Our Father in Heaven,
Hallowed be your name,
Your Kingdom come.
May your will be done on earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into tempatation,
But deliver us from evil.
For yours is the Kingdom, the power & the glory forever and ever.
Amen.

GIVING

LinkTearfund - Australia

'LinkTearfund is a Christian charity working for a better world. You can help them fight poverty & injustice today by donating using the link below.

LinkDONATE HERE to Tearfund - Australia

Whilst generosity is strongly encouraged, please know that giving is always optional and you are never compelled to donate to a cause or organisation through the NSCCC if you choose not to.


CLOSING

SONG 3
LinkHow Deep the Father's Love For Us
Cameron & Kelly

An interesting article or further reading: LinkDecentralised Power & Biblical Leadership: Lessons From Exodus 18


ANNOUNCEMENTS

The Church has now launched a Discord Channel for everyone to interact and share fellowship with one another - Join the discussion at our LinkChurch Discord Channel .

Read dispatch

The Rouge Christmas State and Under ledzia

Under ledzia

The Gallant Old Republic wrote:Be persistent if your conscience is determined. I tried to contact a couple of Catholic churches in my day and heard nothing, but, to paraphrase a priest, devils can be good at jamming communications if they so choose. Find a way to attend to get a taste of what it's really like. Perhaps attend a few times until you're comfortable. Then try to approach someone in the congregation or else the priest himself and tell them you're interested. There's a good chance they will approach you before then (once I was practically tackled at the door of a small fringe schismatic Anglican church eager to get a new member and kindly questioned by the priest and multiple lay members). I took the leap after consciously attending a Catholic school, attending mass almost daily, and approaching one of the priests at lunch. That was after a few years of reading church history and about 'high church' stuff which had already made up my mind, going to mass just confirmed that this was indeed what I had been looking for.
Anecdote: humorously the pew Missal were so complex and hard to follow along with I just had to listen. I memorized all the responses in less than a month, but when I saw them in print afterwards I kept having to make slight corrections since my hearing stinks sometimes.

Thanks for the help. BTW we've got a new poll that continues the last one. Some people wanted US election poll, but the election polls have a queue. Not to mention I can't legally make political commentary of any kind during electoral silence.

Edit: I wrote Mazdanism instead of Mazdan... My bad...

Ecclestia wrote:Happy Sunday everyone,

You might like to check out the NationStates Christian Community Church’s Worship Service and resources!

God bless you all!!



Church Service

OPENING

Check out these: LinkOnline Church Resources

Join the discussion of this week's service at our LinkChurch Discord Channel

SONGS
LinkHow Great Thou Art, God of Wonders, Hosanna & Be Thou My Vision.
Performed by Stacy Feyer Salo at Mars Hill Bible Church, Michigan

READING 1
LinkLuke 24

READING 2
LinkRomans 8


MESSAGE

LinkSunday Service - Ashburton Baptist Church, Melbourne, Australia


REFLECTION

PRAYER

Our Father in Heaven,
Hallowed be your name,
Your Kingdom come.
May your will be done on earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into tempatation,
But deliver us from evil.
For yours is the Kingdom, the power & the glory forever and ever.
Amen.

GIVING

LinkTearfund - Australia

'LinkTearfund is a Christian charity working for a better world. You can help them fight poverty & injustice today by donating using the link below.

LinkDONATE HERE to Tearfund - Australia

Whilst generosity is strongly encouraged, please know that giving is always optional and you are never compelled to donate to a cause or organisation through the NSCCC if you choose not to.


CLOSING

SONG 3
LinkHow Deep the Father's Love For Us
Cameron & Kelly

An interesting article or further reading: LinkDecentralised Power & Biblical Leadership: Lessons From Exodus 18


ANNOUNCEMENTS

The Church has now launched a Discord Channel for everyone to interact and share fellowship with one another - Join the discussion at our LinkChurch Discord Channel .

Read dispatch

Why didn't you add me to your affiliates?

https://www.rt.com/usa/493151-king-louis-statue-protests/

WATCH crowd of protesters shout down Catholic priest trying to defend statue of Saint Louis in Missouri

Angry protesters in St. Louis, Missouri shouted down a young Catholic priest who tried to defend a statue of the city’s namesake. The activists sought to destroy the monument in a wave of statue-toppling sweeping the US.
Priest Stephen Schumacher was filmed in Forest Park defending an equestrian statue of French King Louis IX (1226-1270), the city’s namesake, who was canonized by the Catholic Church.

“Saint Louis was a man who willed to use his kingship to do good for his people,” Schumacher said through a loudspeaker to a crowd of angry protesters demanding to have the statue taken down. He insisted that the king had “nothing to do with Africans,” since during the Crusades he fought against Muslim Arabs, who themselves conquered North Africa centuries prior to that.

Schumacher also asked the crowd to learn more about Louis IX by visiting the local cathedral. One man responded, saying: “Eventually, we’re taking that [down] too, though.”

This whole thing of taking down statues is becoming an absurdity. I doubt Fr. Schumacher will get through to the protesters, given how history is irrelevant to them when it contradicts their narrative, but he is none the less brave and an example to follow.

Under ledzia, I’m not sure how active he is right now, but Rosa-gallica is Orthodox.

Horatius Cocles and Under ledzia

Hello Right to Life, I’m PeePeePooPooCaCa and here are the updated stocks and values. If you want to join the stock market or just want to add companies, please let me know by tagging me in a message of telegramming me. If you want to increase your or another company’s value, I’d suggest investing in them, you can do so by telegramming me. If you’ve got any questions, please let me know.


CELEBRATING 1000 READS!
This stock market will be for companies from nations in the Labyrinth’s embassy regions to expand and make more money. Through the stock market, values will determine investments and due to the wide accessibility of this stock market, companies are guaranteed to make at least some sort of profit. The number besides the company is it’s value in the stock market, one point is equal to 1 million Jilars. The money companies earn will not come from the state, instead, they will come from the revenue made from their products, locations, or to put it simply, from the client. The + or - sign besides the companies indicate whether the company’s value has risen or fallen since last week’s report. The number besides the + or - signs indicates by exactly how much it rose or fell.
In addition, every company on the stock market will get a weekly pay of 100 million Jilars. 85% of the stock market’s profits will go to the companies while 15% will go to PeePeePooPooCaCa. The nation with the largest company in each sector of the market receives a trading card, nations are limited to one card. The card is uncommon if the sector has less than five different nations, rare if it has more than five but less than ten, and epic/legendary if the sector has more than 10 nations.
Every investment by a nation into a company that doesn’t belong to them will be rewarded with karma points. The nation receives 1k for an investment lower than 500 million dollars, 2k for an investment between 500 million and 999,999,999, and 3k for an investment above 1 billion. Karma points are transferred to stock points and are added onto the nation’s companies’ values.
Nations can also buy power ups to boost companies’ values. There shall be four original power ups, but more can be added by other nations if Peepeepoopoocaca approves of them. The creator of a new power up can use it for free the first time he or she wants it. Otherwise, all nations wishing to buy a power up should pay its fee using the nation’s companies’ stock points. The nation does not have a bought power up anymore if he or she don’t pay the power up’s renewal fee in time, or Peepeepoopoocaca decides to terminate the nation’s power up privilege. All power ups shall be bought in the shop down below.
In addition to the karma points system, there will also be another type of external investment. They’re called shares, which essentially means that the company you invest in has to repay you in the form of a dividend. A dividend is calculated using a percentage system, which means that a nation’s share is also it’s dividend. For example, if a nation holds a 20% share of a company, then the company being invested in needs to give the shareholder 20% of weekly profits. So if that company makes 10k points in a week, 2k go to the shareholder. Dividends and shares investments are overall pretty good as they don’t have to be renewed as frequently as karma investments, but they require more negotiation, as the shareholder nation and company representative nation both need to agree on the terms of the investment. The shareholder now possesses a share in said company, and they can sell shares whenever they feel they don’t need said share anymore, for example, when a company’s doing poorly. Shares that are sold on the market are registered as initial public offerings, or IPOs. The number in brackets besides the listed shares down below is the current revenue being made by that company’s share, which is the same as the share price. The whole point of buying and seeking shares is to buy at low prices, and sell at high prices whenever the stockholder honks it’s right.
There will be banks stationed across PPPPCC and elsewhere that will help to fund and monetarily aid the companies in the stock market. A good way to do this will be through loans, which will be eventually paid back by interest. To buy a loan, first choose a bank in which you will form a partnership with and buy loans from them in the future. This bank is now called your ‘partnership bank’. Now, specify the amount of money that will be required to fund the buyer’s project(s), and then, you’re expected to pay back a certain amount of interest within a certain time span. One credit point is equal to 100 stock points and vice versa. On top of this, companies will be able to deposit any money (aka stock points) they currently posses to the bank, and withdraw it whenever they please. As a side note, you’re allowed to change your partnership bank whenever you want, but you have to make an agreement with both banks.
This stock market’s plan is to give companies a fair chance and open up in new lands with new markets and new opportunities. This will never be a stock market established due to corporate greed. We shall never deny a guest, even the most ridiculous request.

For a place to discuss the stock market, ask questions, roleplay scenarios with your companies, and arrange further deals, create an alternate account or submit Embassy requests and join the Inter regional stock market region.


The San Juarez Stock Exchange in San Juarez, PPPPCC

TRADING FLOOR:

TECHNOLOGY

Megasoft (Plus Nova Imperii) - 227K +21K
Genesis Space Tech (The Rouge Christmas State) - 85K -18K
Urukian Computers Co. (Urukian) - 150K +7K
Movey Tech (Moveyrsearlandez) - 109K -15K
Roder (Otterse) - 110K -13K
Mahjanji (Indoinastan) - 177K +3K
GovernmentAndy Inc. (Isolationstan) - 138K +3K
Mecham (Isolationstan) - 144K +8K
The Twitter (Mukh) - 128K +2K
Tokyo Novum Space Tech (Novos romanos) - 148K +3K

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

Data Corp (The Rouge Christmas State) - 88K -18K
Regal Infotech (Port ashley) - 71K -18K
Annoying Discord Bots (Arcane the bot) - 126K +2K
MegaBit (Edington) - 109K -7K
Emporious (Novos romanos) - 142K +4K
Genos-Aelia company (Romaniche) - 188K +30K

FISHING

Pristine Urukian Fishing Co. (Urukian) - 76K +13K

FINANCE

The Duke National Bank (The Rouge Christmas State) - 52K -18K
Pankki Aussandri (Aussandries) - 108K +8K
Sheffield Preudential Bank (Port ashley) - 32K -18K
Pan-Caribbean Bank (Port ashley) - 26K -18K
Natona Banca de’Belac (The belacian states) - 114K +13K
Searland Stock Exchange (Moveyrsearlandez) - 67K -15K
Zhest Exchequer (Indoinastan) - 126K +3K
Gazprombank (Primorski Krai) - 103K +5K
SpanaBank (El Spana) - 150K +8K
jetBank (The belacian states) - 113K +13K

ARMS MANUFACTURING

Xavier Manufacturing (The Rouge Christmas State) - 44K -18K
Urukian Arms Industry (Urukian) - 103K +7K
Soria Co. (Sorianora) - 123K +11K
Aussandries Arms (Aussandries) - 90K +9K
FN (Belned) - 106K +17K
RAPNI (Romaniche) - 142K +26K
Imperial Arms (Puppet scp fuadation) - 88K -15K
The Rifle From The Red (Commie tebit) - 48K -13K
German Austrian Arms Manufacturing (The greater german austrian empire) - 105K +5K
NRAP (Novos romanos) - 109K +8K
The Golden Weapon (The rome empire) - 97K +2K
Pewds Arms (Pewds supporter) - 45K -21K
Vegetarian Light Armaments (Democratic republic of nothingness) - 102K +1K
Rajputana Rifles (Republic of rajputana) - 106K +2K
Carthage and Co (Carthaginian civilization) - 94K +2K
BFP (Belned) - 118K +13K
تصنيع اذرع الشمس (Urukian) - 130K +13K
Mosin and Avtomat Armory (Primorski Krai) - 104K +5K
Guns For Freedom (Legionarya) - 148K +26K
Tengri Seraphim (Khazar lechia) - 78K -9K

SPACE

Stavanger Space Tech (Urukian) - 113K +9K
Urukian Space Repair Service (Urukian) - 105K +8K
U2 Space (Phoenix city of fire) - 110K +2K
Young Industries Civilian Aeronautics Division (Young industries) - 99K +1K
Tokyo Novum Space Industries (Novos romanos) - 111K +5K

BEVERAGES

The Rare Old Mountain Dew (Aussandries) - 60K +9K
Roma-Soda (Romaniche) - 93K +24K
Ecchi-Cola (The Strangers Club) - 70K +14K
Par Biir (The belacian states) - 61K +12K

PROSTITUTION

Meninas Capitalistas (Ofiussia) - 28K +3K

RETAIL

Roma-Nike (Romaniche) - 178K +26K
Strange-Mart (The Strangers Club) - 176K +16K
JP Capitalista (Novos romanos) - 141K +5K

CHEESE EXPORTS

Khan’s Milk Farm (Khazar lechia) - 28K -6K
Romanichean Cheese (Romaniche) - 89K +24K
Tillamook Cheese (Isolationstan) - 62K +9K
Transvaal Dairy (Wabobania) - 39K +1K
Raja Panner Curry (Indoinastan) - 60K +4K
Puic Cheese (Carthaginian civilization) - 40K +1K
La Branzika (Legionarya) - 92K +24K

AGRICULTURE

Khan’s Personal Fields (Khazar lechia) - 56K +6K
Faster Growth (Otterse) - 35K -9K
NR Agriculture (Novos romanos) - 62K +4K
Sodrugestvo (Primorski Krai) - 63K +7K

PHARMACEUTICALS

Sun Pharma (Port ashley) - 13K -18K
University Medicine (Hopal) - 64K +2K
G Pharmaceutics SRL (Gavraska) - 66K +9K

DEFENSE

Cambium Aerospace and Trucks (Port ashley) - 23K-18K
Bunker-Apparatus (Koedric) - 79K +10K
Imperial Armed Defense (Puppet scp fuadation) - 69K -7K
The Red China Army (Commie tebit) - 33K -12K
Golden Wall (The rome empire) - 78K +2K
UAC (Primorski Krai) - 76K +7K

AUTOMOBILES

Scandia Automobiles (Port ashley) - 21K -18K
Satirop (Phoenix city of fire) - 81K +3K
Cars and Stuff (New cica) - 77K +1K
Belton Automotive (Isolationstan) - 86K +3K
Rebirth Motors (Rebirth Island) - 74K +1K
Henry Ford (Legionarya) - 88K +22K

BICYCLES

Belac Bíçiclas (The belacian states) - 82K +9K
H Bikes (Hopal) - 61K +2K

NATURAL GAS

Urukian Natural Gas (Urukian) - 112K +23K

MINING

Urukian Minerals Production (Urukian) - 207K +26K
Novos Romanos Minerals Ltd (Novos romanos) - 182K +4K
Cratersville Mining Ltd (Isolationstan) - 178K +6K

TOURISM

visitBelac (The belacian states) - 130K +13K
Imagine Indoina (Indoinastan) - 118K +3K
TravelDumb (Dumb country) - 96K

GAMBLING

Ugosalinese Casinos (Ugosal) - 116K +4K
Cykas ke liye Kazino (Indoinastan) - 118K +3K
The Rising Sun (The Strangers Club) - 134K +13K

CLOTHING

Seter (Moveyrsearlandez) - 76K -8K

JEWELRY

Lal Ruby (Indoinastan) - 177K +3K

TIMBER WOODCHIPPING

Chipps Chips (Isolationstan) - 95K +9K

FILM AND BOOK PUBLISHING

PAWS Trademark Limited (Indoinastan) - 110K +3K

FILM PUBLISHING

Viking Studios & Dark House Films (El Spana) - 88K +4K
Belac Film Company (The belacian states) - 93K +11K

BASKET WEAVING

Romanichean Festives Stock (Romaniche) - 76K +16K

FLEX SEAL FAMILY OF PRODUCTS

Flex Seal Family of Products (Swiftlandian Peoples Republic) - 206K -3K

BLACK MARKET

River Styx (Draconovox) - 148K +23K
NR Slaves INC (Novos romanos) - 82K +3K

TV PRODUCTION

Anime Production Center (Phoenix city of fire) - 78K +4K
Viva Studios (Latiouthel) 73K +4K

LUMBER

The Spaniard Woodstock (El Spana) - 91K +4K

BARS

Slagger's (The corporate sectors) - 49K +1K

EMPLOYMENT

Workers of the World United (Slavic lechia) - 55K +2K

BROADCASTING

GMA Network (Latiouthel) - 68K +4K

ENERGY

IEG Company Corp (Latiouthel) - 79K +4K
Nuclearrr INC (Novos romanos) - 87K +4K

SOY SAUCE

Sam’s Sauce (Akumanga) - 43K +6K

TRADE

Auchan (Primorski Krai) - 81K +5K
Amorix International (Ethics committee of the scpf) - 75K +4K

TEMPLES

مذابح الشمس (Urukian) - 73K +14K
श्रेकवादी हिंदू धर्म और संथाल मंदिर of മെമ്മുകളും കമ്യൂണിസവും (Indoinastan) - 68K +3K

RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

Mindon Labs (Mindon) - 78K +2K

FAST F00D

MC doNAlds (Japanese ronald mc donald) - 69K +4K

BROADCASTING

Channel 6 (The belacian states) - 90K +10K

FOOD

Food Heaven (The belacian states) - 73K +9K

RECYCLING

Humans Recycled Co. (Yes humans are recyclable) - 44K +4K

MANUFACTURING

BLC Corporation (Latiouthel) - 83K +5K

MILITARY WEAPONRY

The Naliz Corpotarion (The soldrania) - 88K

VIRGIN GROUP

Virgin Group (A Memer) - 69K

DATA:
THIS WEEK’S LOSSES: $414 Billion
THIS WEEK’S REVENUE: $759 Billion
THIS WEEK’S PROFIT: $345 Billion
TOTAL ALL TIME REVENUE MADE SO FAR: ~$106 Trillion
NATIONS INVOLVED: 57
REGIONS INVOLVED: 19

CURRENT INVESTMENTS:

Aug 16. Aussandries into Aussandries companies, 1 month

Aug 22. The Strangers Club 2 billion into The Strange Mart, 1 month

Aug 25. Urukian 2 billion into Urukian companies +1 billion to Urukian National Gas and Urukian Minerals Co., 1 month

Aug 25. Draconovox 2 billion into Mecham (Isolationstan), 1 month

Aug 25. Draconovox 2 billion into Rapni (Romaniche), 1 month

Aug 25. Draconovox 2 billion into Tillamook Cheese (Isolationstan), 1 month

Aug 25. Draconovox 2 billion into Romanichean Cheese (Romaniche), 1 month

Aug 25. Draconovox 2 billion into Spanabank (El Spana), 1 month

Aug 26. The belacian states into The belacian states companies, 1 month

Aug 26. Legionarya 10 million into Legionarya companies, 1 month

Aug 26. Hopal 3 billion into University Medicine, 1 month

Aug 26. Gavraska 35K into Pristine Urukian Fishing Co., 1 month

Aug 26. Gavraska 1 billion into Gavraska companies, 1 month

Aug 29. The Strangers Club 500 million into MegaSoft (Plus Nova Imperii), 1 month

Aug 29. The Strangers Club 500 million into Anime Production Center (Phoenix city of fire), 1 month

Aug 29. Koedric into BFP (Belned), 1 month

Aug 29. Akumanga 500 million into Sam’s Sauce, 1 month

Aug 29. Urukian 1 billion into تصنيع اذرع الشمس, 1 month

Aug 29. The belacian states 500 million into Chipps Chips (Isolationstan), 1 month

Aug 30. Gavraska 500 million into Khan’s Personal Fields (Khazar lechia), 1 month

Aug 30. Gavraska 500 million into Golden Wall (The rome empire), 1 month

Aug 30. Gavraska 200 million into La Branzika (Legionarya), 1 month

Aug 30. Aussandries 1 billion+ into visitBelac (The belacian states), 1 month

Sep 7. Legionarya 200 million into Legionarya companies, 1 month

Sep 7. Romaniche 150 billion into Romaniche companies, 1 week

Sep 7. Romaniche 50 billion into Emporious (Novos romanos), FN (Belned), BFP (Belned), NRAP (Novos romanos), Guns for Freedom (Legionarya), JP Capitalista (Novos romanos), La Branzinka (Legionarya), 1 week

Sep 7. Plus Nova Imperii into Plus Nova Imperii companies, 1 week

Sep 7. Plus Nova Imperii into Sorianora companies, 1 week

Sep 7. Sorianora into Sorianora companies, 1 week

Sep 7. Sorianora into Plus Nova Imperii companies, 1 week

Sep 7. Koedric into Bunker Apparatus (Koedric) and FN (Belned), 1 week

Sep 7. The Strangers Club 5 billion into The Strangers Club companies, 1 month

Sep 7. The Strangers Club 2 billion into MegaSoft (Puppet States of Plus Nova Imperii), 1 month

Sep 7. The Strangers Club 2 billion into Anime Production Center (Phoenix city of fire), 1 month

IRPSFSM or IRSFADM INVESTMENTS

Sep 7. The soldrania 100 million into Bitterlich (Sturengartz), 1 month (IRPSFSM Company Investment) - Company Ceased to Exist, Investment Firm Payed Back With the Company’s Remaining Value (4 Billion)

SHOP:

Pizza: Increases your companies’ investment deadlines by a month | Cost: 10,000 Stock Points | Renewal Cost: 1,500 Points (Must be paid within a month)

Totem of Undying: Restores a company below 3,000 points back to the stock market with an initial value of 5,000 points | Cost: 0 Points, Message or Telegram to Peepeepoopoocaca (No renewal required)

Chaos Emerald: Increases a company’s value by 10% each week | Cost: 25,000 Points | Renewal Cost: 3,000 Points (Must be paid within a week)

Scooby Snack: Gives you 1,000 free karma points every month | Cost: 5,000 Points | Renewal Cost: 1,000 Points (Must be paid within a month)

OWNED SHARES:

Draconovox: 15% Shares in Mecham (22K), Rapni (21K), Tillamook Cheese (9K), Romanichean Cheese (14K), and Spanabank (23K)

Sorianora: 10% Share in MegaSoft (23K)

Gavraska: 1% Share in Pristine Fishing Co. (760)

The Strangers Club: 15% Share in MegaSoft (34K), and Anime Production Center (12K)

Koedric: 10% Share in BFP (12K)

Romaniche: 20% Share in BFP (24K), Guns For Freedom (30K), FN (21K), Emporious (28K), NRAP (22K), JP Capitalista (28K), La Brazinka (18K)

The belacian states: 10% Share in Chipps Chips (10K)

Gavraska: 10% Share in Khan’s Personal Fields (6K), and Golden Wall (8K)

Gavraska: 5% Share in La Brazinka (5K)

Aussandries: 15% Share in visitBelac (20K)

Indoinastan: 5% Share in U2 Space (6K), Satirop (4K), and Anime Production Center (4K)

Koedric: 10% Share in FN (11K)

SHARES ON SALE/IPOs:

- 10% of jetBank (The belacian states)
- 15% of Par Biir (The belacian states)
- 4% of Belac Film Company (The belacian states)
- 8% of Belac Bíçiclas (The belacian states)

COMPANIES ON SALE:

Here’s where companies who’s country owners have ceased to exist go to be hopefully bought by new countries and return to the stock market

- Bing Software National, Info. Tech Company, Former Owner: Of altonianic islands, Value: 369K

- Wooloo, Arms Manufacturing Company, Former Owner: Wooloo-land, Value: 7K

- Ludwig and Beilschmit, Space Company, Former Owner: Gallar, Value: 95K

- Glorious Potatoes Inc., Agriculture Company, Former Owner: Of altonianic islands Value: 75K

- Haberlin, Military Aircraft Company, Former Owner: Sturengartz Value: 58K

- Brausewetter, Natural Gas Company, Former Owner: Sturengartz Value: 40K

- Sturencabel, Telecommunications Company, Former Owner: Sturengartz Value: 60K

- The Golden Hour, Gambling Company, Former Owner: Gallar Value: 108K

- Billy’s Chicken, Poultry Farms Company, Former Owner: Chicknland Value: 60K

The Duke National Bank (The Rouge Christmas State):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Pankki Aussandri (Aussandries):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Sheffield Preudential Bank (Port ashley):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Pan-Caribbean Bank (Port ashley):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Natona Banca de’Belac (The belacian states):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Searland Stock Exchange (Moveyrsearlandez):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Exchequer (Indoinastan):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

Gazprombank (Primorski Krai):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

SpanaBank (El Spana):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

jetBank (The belacian states):

Loans given out to:
Money deposited:
Current credit to loan ratio: 1 credit point for 100 stock points

COMPANY AWARDS
COMPANY OF THE WEEK: Genos-Aelia company (Romaniche) - 158K
MOST VALUABLE COMPANY: Bing Software National (Of altonianic islands) - 362K

FORMER COMPANIES:
All of these companies are now currently in the Inter Regional Primary Stock and Financial Support Market (IRPSFSM)

- Gòngchǎn Baskets (Commie tebit)
- LS’s Bigmouth (CALLMEDADDYSTRATTON)


COUNTRY PROFILES:

Plus Nova Imperii: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The Rouge Christmas State: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Urukian: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Moveyrsearlandez: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Otterse: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Indoinastan: Karma Multipliter: 1K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Isolationstan: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Mukh: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Novos romanos: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Port ashley: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Arcane the bot: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Edington: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Romaniche: Karma Multipliter: 15K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Callmedaddystratton: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Aussandries: Karma Multipliter: 3K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The belacian states: Karma Multipliter: 1K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Primorski Krai: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Sorianora: Karma Multipliter: 1K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Belned: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Puppet scp fuadation: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Commie tebit: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The greater german austrian empire: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The rome empire: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Pewds supporter: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Democratic republic of nothingness: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Republic of rajputana: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Carthaginian civilization: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Legionarya: Karma Multipliter: 9K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Khazar lechia: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Phoenix city of fire: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Young industries: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The Strangers Club: Karma Multipliter: 8K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Ofiussia: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Wabobania: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Koedric: Karma Multipliter: 1K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
New cica: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Rebirth Island: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Ugosal: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
El Spana: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Swiftlandian Peoples Republic: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Draconovox: Karma Multipliter: 15K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The corporate sectors: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Slavic lechia: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Latiouthel: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Akumanga: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Mindon: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Japanese ronald mc donald: Karma Multipliter: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Hopal: Karma Multiplier: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Gavraska: Karma Multiplier: 6K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Yes humans are recyclable: Karma Multiplier: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Ethics committee of the scpf: Karma Multiplier: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
The soldrania: Karma Multiplier: 1K Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
Dumb country: Karma Multiplier: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None
A Memer: Karma Multiplier: 0 Points, Power Ups: 0, Partnership Bank: None



JUST A SIDE NOTE, MAKE SURE TO RENEW YOUR INVESTMENTS WEEKLY OR MONTHLY DEPENDING ON YOUR INVESTMENT SIZE. ANYTHING ABOVE 100 BILLION DOLLARS OR AN INVESTMENT WITH AN UNSPECIFIED AMOUNT OF MONEY NEEDS TO BE RENEWED WEEKLY, ANYTHING BELOW NEEDS TO BE RENEWED MONTHLY AT LEAST. NOT RENEWING YOUR INVESTMENT(S) COULD RESULT IN A COMPANY DROPPING SIGNIFICANTLY IN VALUE. TO RENEW YOUR INVESTMENT(S), TELEGRAM ME OR TAG ME IN AN RMB POST PLEASE. THANK YOU


”why are u gae”

Read dispatch

It's good to see that Mississippi is taking steps to change its flag.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/884306925/mississippi-lawmakers-clear-path-to-remove-confederate-emblem-from-state-flag

Either the Civil War flag or the 20-star flag would be an appropriate replacement.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Flag_of_Mississippi_%281861%E2%80%931865%29.svg/320px-Flag_of_Mississippi_%281861%E2%80%931865%29.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Flag_of_Mississippi_%282001_proposal%29.svg/320px-Flag_of_Mississippi_%282001_proposal%29.svg.png

Both flags still contain Confederate imagery. However, unlike the current flag, neither is explicitly racist.

In other news, Princeton University is removing Woodrow Wilson.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/27/us/woodrow-wilson-princeton-university-trnd/index.html

I'm not a big fan of Wilson, but I don't think he should be removed either. He was an accomplished man -- a political scientist, a university president, a governor, and U.S. president -- and, on the whole, his racism is a comparatively small part of his legacy. It should be used as a teaching tool about human imperfection rather than as a rationale for destroying Wilson altogether, good parts and bad.

Culture of Life wrote:In other news, Princeton University is removing Woodrow Wilson.

Wilson permanently crippled the United States and destroyed Europe, I'll not raise my voice to defend him.

I'm more disturbed by the farcical, "Year 0" revisionist nonsense of realtors censoring the term "master bedroom" from their listings.

Now that I am an official citizen of RtL, are there any other citizens (at least two) who would be interested in forming a new party? I think the current offering of parties leaves an opening for a non-socialist, non-secular party to move in and meet an unmet need.

This new party would mount a pro-social reform, pro-worker, pro-religion, pro-monarchy, pro-protectionist platform.

Basilicus wrote:Now that I am an official citizen of RtL, are there any other citizens (at least two) who would be interested in forming a new party? I think the current offering of parties leaves an opening for a non-socialist, non-secular party to move in and meet an unmet need.

This new party would mount a pro-social reform, pro-worker, pro-religion, pro-monarchy, pro-protectionist platform.

The most important thing I feel is... what will you call your party?

Also the CSP is all those positions you have listed, aside from the pro-monarchy of course, it will be however good to see more political variety.

Basilicus wrote:This new party would mount a . . . pro-monarchy . . . platform.

I'm flattered.

The Catholic State of Eire wrote:The most important thing I feel is... what will you call your party?

I was thinking the Popular Industrial Monarchist Party (PIMP).

The Catholic State of Eire wrote: Also the CSP is all those positions you have listed, aside from the pro-monarchy of course, it will be however good to see more political variety.

Unlike the socialist CSP, this party would be Bonapartist in spirit and so does not embrace the necessity of shifting the means of production into the hands of the proletariat in order to achieve social progress, but rather seeks to unify all classes under a strong, centralized monarchy, in cooperation with religious institutions to provide additional social cohesion.

«12. . .2,1652,1662,1672,1682,1692,1702,171. . .2,5172,518»

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