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I am an uwuist. That means i support anything cute, such as little kitten. And yourself <3

Typica, Bapaving, Great algerstonia, Sylh Alanor, and 7 othersMelenavenia, Elenaraghaenaris, Araine, Free Las Pinas II, Golden gateway, Valdonland, and Kariforunia

Valdonland wrote:Question: I know that Refugia is generaly considered a left-wing region.My question is: which ideology do you support (If you support any)?Not to start any arguments or anything,just out of innocent curiosity.
I am a self-identifying Christian Socialist btw.

I guess the ideology that closest fits my values would be Democratic Socialist, as I am firmly progressive on social issues and believe in the state protecting and providing for the citizens.

Narwhal, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, and 2 othersValdonland, and Kariforunia

Refuge Isle wrote:Where do the buffalo go though? 🤔

Buffalo buffalo, Buffalo buffalo bufallo, buffalo buffalo

Valdonland wrote:Question: I know that Refugia is generaly considered a left-wing region.My question is: which ideology do you support (If you support any)?Not to start any arguments or anything,just out of innocent curiosity.
I am a self-identifying Christian Socialist btw.

I will limit my answer to the IC (In-character) ideology of this country (LFG): Environmentalist, and liberalist-humanistic. I believe this fits more or less the professed ideology of the region. However, in terms of Socilism vs. Capitalism, I consider this country Capitalist-with-welfare, or rather slightly-left-of-center.

Melenavenia, Araine, Pantala and pyrrhia, Valdonland, and 1 otherKariforunia

Valdonland wrote:Question: I know that Refugia is generaly considered a left-wing region.My question is: which ideology do you support (If you support any)?Not to start any arguments or anything,just out of innocent curiosity.
I am a self-identifying Christian Socialist btw.

I find myself agreeing with the social values of christian democracy despite not being christian. Economically I am a distributist. I lean right on most other things

Araine, Pantala and pyrrhia, Valdonland, and Kariforunia

Valdonland wrote:Question: I know that Refugia is generaly considered a left-wing region.My question is: which ideology do you support (If you support any)?Not to start any arguments or anything,just out of innocent curiosity.
I am a self-identifying Christian Socialist btw.

Good question! Personally, I identify as a left leaning centrist. Extremism, I think, drives me away perhaps more than centrism attracts me-- I come from a highly religious, extremely right wing household, and this has driven me away from both religion and rightism. My political views are still developing, and, in general, I tend to have mixed views on economic socialism, but I thoroughly support environmentalism, and therefore tighter regulations on business. I also think that state funded welfare should be a no brainier, and, quite frankly, my nation's lack of a universal healthcare program baffles me. So, I suppose I don't support any specific ideology, but I definitely lean towards leftism.

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Pantala and pyrrhia, Valdonland, and 2 othersRepublic of central darfur, and Kariforunia

So what am I supposed to do here?

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, and Kariforunia

Eroias wrote:So what am I supposed to do here?

The answer to this is kinda complex. In one regard it's "whatever you want to". NationStates is kinda like minecraft in that the world is pretty open and the objectives area whatever you'd like them to be. There is content at the surface level, but if you want more, there is always more that can be had, even beyond however much time you have available to do them.

Probably life starts with issues, they're the most basic and come in automatically every six hours. A lot of people get competitive with their nation's stats and protective about what types of things their nation does well and how well they do them. Some folks put a lot of thought and effort into building their nation's image. What it looks like, how it behaves, coming up with art and backstories. Dispatches and factbooks are fantastic sandboxes to come up with your own articles because there's enough tools at your disposal to make a mock webpage. Ponderosa's factbook is a great example of this. (Hi Ponderosa).

Beyond that, there are things that function like international issues which are votes that happen in the World Assembly, which functions like a United Nations, of sorts. All the stuff there is written by players, sometimes literally by us, so that's also fun.

After that, a lot of regions (including ours) have regional laws and regional government. Our regional law is called the Refugia Revised Statutes and that forms how things work around here, what government jobs are available, how our programs work, etc. If you are interested in legislation, it's relatively straightforward to float ideas on how to amend the law, and send in a referendum. We also have elections every four months for regional councillor positions, the people who effectively run the region. Those councillor jobs are protecting the region, doing cultural and eco events, foreign affairs, World Assembly affairs, and public relations, essentially. And all of that work takes time and energy input, but keep things stable and running smoothly here, and those take people who like those kinds of fields.

There is a cards metagame, a challenges metagame, a sort of invasion metagame, and more. All of which can get substantially more complicated the more time and thought you put into each.

Alternatively, people can just hang out in the chat, spam, and play tetris. The world is your oyster, etc.

Ciumbuleuit-bandung

Valdonland wrote:Question: I know that Refugia is generaly considered a left-wing region.My question is: which ideology do you support (If you support any)?Not to start any arguments or anything,just out of innocent curiosity.
I am a self-identifying Christian Socialist btw.

I was once called a "lumpen Maoist", but I don't think I identify as one. My work in the area of climate policy leads me to believe that the wrong people (i.e. specific fractions of capital) have too much power and control over too much of the world's natural resources, and that is why we will be heading for complete catastrophe. Wresting power and control away from these fractions and redistributing them into the hands of a diversity of groups who do more environmentally friendly and just things is the key. So I am not sure what this makes me. I like slogans, sometimes.

Melenavenia, Araine, Valdonland, and Kariforunia

Kraljevstvo rata

oi hello there, it's your favorite kral

here to tell you that your birds keep pecking at my door. >:|

Kraljevstvo rata wrote:oi hello there, it's your favorite kral

here to tell you that your birds keep pecking at my door. >:|

sorry my woodpeckers got out

Lower French Gregballs, Kraljevstvo rata, Sylh Alanor, Araine, and 3 othersFree Las Pinas II, The most serene republicans, and Kariforunia

Kraljevstvo rata wrote:oi hello there, it's your favorite kral

here to tell you that your birds keep pecking at my door. >:|

:hyper: And they will never stop until you accept the parcel.

Lower French Gregballs, Kraljevstvo rata, Melenavenia, Araine, and 3 othersFree Las Pinas II, The most serene republicans, and Kariforunia

Emojitheft

Hi all,

I am here to open a discussion on the submitted proposal Liberate The New Inquisition. The proposal would remove the password* on the region The New Inquisition which was once a powerful Imperialist region which engaged in offensive raids. For historical context, TNI was widely perceived as being one of the leaders of a broader "Imperialist sphere" along with regions such as The Land of Kings and Emperors and later on the sinker region of Balder. However, TNI specifically fell inactive over time and was eventually passworded to ensure the region itself could not be raided.

The founder of TNI ceased to exist some time ago, and as a result a Liberation was proposed to remove the password on the region so defenders can engage in offensive actions against TNI. It is worth noting the founder has ceased to exist and come back twice and likely can continue to be brought back in perpetuity.

I am strongly opposed to this proposal for three reasons and really wish it had not been submitted, my reasons are explained here, here, and here. In sum, my reasons are:

1. Even if it was desirable to open up TNI to be raided, it won't work. The founder is currently around and will inevitably come back. A SC Liberation can't actually remove a founder-imposed password (or a password of a region with a founder). Even if the founder were to CTE again, then defenders would move in to raid the region, they would pile it (meaning deploy WAs into the region for the purpose of gaining influence to reject the remaining residents of TNI), and then the founder would return after several weeks of defenders wasting time and resources on this project when their resources would be far better used elsewhere.

2. The way this proposal has been advocated is haphazard af. The only justification presented is vengeance which is not a persuasive or forward-looking model of justice, and is generally against the values I've heard expressed by most Refugi. Insofar as those values should implicate our SC stances, vengeance is not a sufficient reason to offensively liberate a region. Maybe if it could be directed towards some kind of productive purpose it could be justified, but in this case there is no such justification advanced by the author or that I can imagine more generally in this specific case.

3. There is no plausible path for this to pass given the extensive FA prowess of the Imperialist sphere. While sometimes it's worth picking losing fights, this is not one of them and by advancing this and doing so in such a poorly executed manner, the author does a disservice to the cause of defending more broadly. While Refugia is not defender, I personally as a defender am frustrated by this project's poor execution reflecting back on defender politics more broadly.

It's worth noting that Refuge Isle has authored this indict of defender counter-invasions of raiders more broadly.

Anyways, open to additional input on this matter!

Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Narwhal, Refuge Isle, and 9 othersSylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas II, Junitaki-cho, The most serene republicans, Pantala and pyrrhia, Kariforunia, and Ciumbuleuit-bandung

Dokkaebitopia

UwU konichiwa UwU

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Free Las Pinas II, The most serene republicans, and 1 otherKariforunia

Dokkaebitopia wrote:UwU konichiwa UwU

Hi there! How are you?

Emojitheft wrote:-snip-

Thank you so much for this writeup. I've checked out the thread a couple times since you two mentioned it in the server, and it seems like it's being presented entirely insincerely. Not knowing much about the history involved beyond this reading, I'm happy to have learned and feel I understand pretty well. I'll vote against if and when it goes up.

Narwhal, Araine, The most serene republicans, and Kariforunia

Welcome, Eroias, Batskovey, Dokkaebitopia, and Nuova venezia to Refugia! I hope all of you enjoy your stays. If it applies to you, please pay attention to the rest of this message.

Refugia aims to be a friendly, laid-back community, which is open to players of all skill levels. Nations who wish to become more active in the region, however, should consider joining the World Assembly (WA). WA nations are able to vote on international law, and receive exclusive benefits within the region, such as the ability to vote in regional polls and elections, get a spot on Refugia's map, and even run for office when elections come up! If you're interested in joining the WA, check out this article, and make sure to endorse our delegate.

If you'd rather just chill with us, that's perfectly fine as well. We have an offsite forum, as well as frequent discussions on the regional message board (RMB), which everyone is welcome to participate in!

If you have any additional questions about the region or how NationStates works, feel free to leave them here, on the RMB. If you're interested in joining our offsite forum, look for the link at the top of Refugia's World Factbook Entry (the big text box at the top of our regional page).

Once again, I really hope you enjoy your time here, and look forward to seeing more of you soon!

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Junitaki-cho, and 3 othersThe most serene republicans, Kariforunia, and Eroias

The most serene republicans

Forest

O, refugi, I request thine help:

I found some paint, I found some rulers, I'm gonna be making a bunch of small flags and putting them on my wall, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already made the phillipines and angola, since those are two of my favs.

Melenavenia, Araine, and Kariforunia

Happy Earth Day Refugia!

The most serene republicans wrote:O, refugi, I request thine help:

I found some paint, I found some rulers, I'm gonna be making a bunch of small flags and putting them on my wall, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already made the phillipines and angola, since those are two of my favs.

Huh, that's a real neat idea. I am definitely doing that too, but with my own NS flag!

For RL flag suggestions though, maybe Canada or Norway? Those are very pretty flags, and incorporate red like the other two.

Dokkaebitopia wrote:UwU konichiwa UwU

Hi!

Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, and 4 othersThe most serene republicans, Valdonland, Kariforunia, and Ciumbuleuit-bandung

Free Las Pinas II wrote:Happy Earth Day Refugia!

Yay Earth Day! That sounds like an excuse for me to use the Green Week flag again.

Kraljevstvo rata, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and 8 othersAraine, Free Las Pinas II, Junitaki-cho, Laisou, Emojitheft, The most serene republicans, Valdonland, and Kariforunia

Free Las Pinas II wrote:Happy Earth Day Refugia!

Happy Earth Day to everyone!

Kraljevstvo rata, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, and 5 othersFree Las Pinas II, Laisou, Emojitheft, The most serene republicans, and Kariforunia

The most serene republicans wrote:O, refugi, I request thine help:

I found some paint, I found some rulers, I'm gonna be making a bunch of small flags and putting them on my wall, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already made the phillipines and angola, since those are two of my favs.

South Africa! Seychelles! Belarus!

Sylh Alanor, Araine, Free Las Pinas II, Laisou, and 2 othersThe most serene republicans, and Kariforunia

The most serene republicans wrote:O, refugi, I request thine help:

I found some paint, I found some rulers, I'm gonna be making a bunch of small flags and putting them on my wall, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already made the phillipines and angola, since those are two of my favs.

I’m gonna sound biased but the Sámi flag is super cool imo.

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, and Kariforunia

The most serene republicans wrote:O, refugi, I request thine help:

I found some paint, I found some rulers, I'm gonna be making a bunch of small flags and putting them on my wall, does anyone have any suggestions? I've already made the phillipines and angola, since those are two of my favs.

フラグ?

This is biased but the Japan flag is a recommendation. Simple yet elegant. But I think I should go to sleep. It's 1am. I need a consistent sleeping schedule.

おやすみなさい.

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Junitaki-cho, and 2 othersThe most serene republicans, and Golden gateway

I made my own variant of the japan flag. It got tanuki face B3

Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Araine, Free Las Pinas II, and 3 othersGolden gateway, Pantala and pyrrhia, and Kariforunia

Following the RMB discussion above and a discussion on the CalRef Discord, I have issued a recommendation against the Security Council proposal "Liberate The New Inquisition"

Liberate The New Inquisition
Information for Voters

Summary

Liberate The New Inquisition would have the effect of removing the password currently placed on the region (when the region is founderless), thereby allowing the region to be invaded by forces opposed to The New Inquisition.

In order to understand this proposal, there are several important pieces of context:

1. While the title "Liberation" makes it seem as if the proposal would in and of itself return a region to the control of its native government, that is not what a Liberation does. A Liberation removes the ability to impose a password on a region without a founder, thereby making it operationally infeasible for the region to be permanently occupied and impossible for its regional message board and history to be destroyed via refounding the region. It is worth noting that a Liberation will only remove a password if the region does not have an active founder, not if the password was imposed by the Delegate (as the phrasing on the WA page implies).

2. The New Inquisition (TNI) is a formerly prominent Imperialist region, meaning it hosted a community with unique Foreign Affairs interests which included the invasion and destruction of other regions, often in cooperation with TNI's allies in The Land of Kings and Emperors and Albion through the LinkUnited Imperial Armed Forces (UIAF). Acts committed by TNI are detailed in the resolution, including the invasion of The Rejected Realms in 2012, support for the Empire coup of Refugi embassy partner The East Pacific in 2008 which eventually led to the establishment of the current Concordat government of the East, and raids of many founderless regions including Refugi embassy partner Canada. Today, TNI is not as powerful as it once was, with its community largely having dwindled away, and the region is regularly "founderless", as the founder nation will briefly cease to exist although occasionally be revived when the founder is contacted by still active players.

3. Within NationStates "military gameplay", there is a division among defender-aligned groups as to whether it is acceptable to "counter-invade" raider organizations. The Ten-thousand Islands Treaty Organization (TITO), the military of Refugi embassy partner 10000 Islands, has the most long-running history of engaging in counter-invasions of raider regions, including TITO's eventual annexation of Empire of Power (a region which attacked 10000 Islands directly) and Marijuana Militia (a raider region). More information about the practice of counter-invasion as conducted by TITO can be found Linkhere. Recently, prominent defender region The Order of the Grey Wardens (TGW) has also engaged in this practice. However, there is not universal support for the practice of counter-invasion within the defender community, as the Founderless Regions Alliance (FRA), a now defunct defender alliance, had a "defend all regions" policy1, including its defense of Marijuana Militia when the region was counter-invaded by TITO. Today, not all defender militaries have counter-invasion of raider regions as part of their mandate, for example the Rejected Realms Army (RRA) (the Constitutionally independent military of The Rejected Realms) and the South Pacific Special Forces (SPSF) (the military of the Coalition of the South Pacific) both do not counter-invade raiders. In short, there is not universal consensus among defender groups about whether it is or is not acceptable to raid raider regions, although it is a long-standing practice with a rich history.

Analysis

The proposal to Liberate The New Inquisition is misguided, haphazardly executed, ineffective at accomplishing its intended goals, and relies on a vengeful model of justice which is inconsistent with Refugi values. In understanding this proposal, it is important to pay attention to both the text of the proposal itself and the forum thread debating the subject.

First, this Information for Voters notes the haphazard execution of the debate on this proposal. The initial draft of the proposal (which the author has deleted from their initial post and replaced with a different draft as "Draft 1", possibly in an effort to remove this mistaken draft from the record, but which has relevant parts saved in subsequent posts) attempted to advocate for the liberation on behalf of the natives of TNI (citation), which is clearly not the intention of the proposal. Given the context that the author was a then-Tactical Officer of TITO (an organization which supports counter-invasions) and a proud supporter of the concept of counter-invasions, this explanation rang hollow early on. Specifically, the author defended the initial draft by arguing that the region was passworded by Onderkelkia's puppet British whiskum on behalf of The Land of Kings and Emperors (LKE) (citation). However, this ignores the fact that British Whiskum/Onderkelkia was a long-time native and leader within TNI, and that LKE was requested to assist by TNI as one of TNI's oldest treaty allies (citation post). After these exchanges, the proposal was amended, and ultimately this argument is not present in the draft. It is only included in this Information for Voters to underline the haphazard manner in which this resolution was pursued.

The haphazard execution of this proposal is further highlighted later in the thread. The author at various points is presented with criticism and responds by simply reasserting their position without responding to counter-arguments. The author also admits they do not have a strategy to pass this proposal and that they "honestly do not care if it fails or not", making the entire thing an exercise in disinterested futility which, at best, wastes the time and energy of the Security Council. When further pressed on this, the author implies some kind of secret agenda for the proposal which will be revealed to the voters after the vote, representing a further disrespect for Security Council process and deliberation.

Second, it should be noted that this proposal will not accomplish its intended objectives. If we accept the idea that invader or Imperialist regions do deserve to be invaded, this proposal will still not accomplish that. We note that the founder of TNI The new inquisitors has been refounded twice recently, both timed to coincide with the drafting of this proposal and its resubmission, likely at the prompting through Other Worldly communication systems from the remaining residents of TNI. We also note from the "Summary" section that a region with an active founder will not have its password removed if a Liberation passes. As a result, TNI would be invulnerable to even a temporary raid attempt after passing this Liberation.

Even if TNI's founder were to cease to exist for a time, given that the nation can be easily revived, any effort in the interim to potentially refound TNI would be a waste of defender resources. In order to refound a region, occupying forces must place a large number of WA nations into the region for an extended period of time in order to build up "influence" on a lead nation, which then will impose a password and eject the resident nations. Due to the age of TNI, the region is home to a not insubstantial amount of influence which would take several weeks to months for occupying forces to accumulate sufficient influence to remove. Given that the founder would also likely come back part-way through that process (as is demonstrated by past events), it is entirely likely that such an effort would be futile and a waste of defender military resources.

Third, this proposal represents a form of vengeful justice that is not consistent with Refugi ideals. Consistently the provided explanation for this proposal has been that Imperialists in TNI "deserve" to have their region taken from them because of what they did to native nations and that they should have to experience something similar. The proposal is justified by the author through a competitive lens, noting the perceived decline of the "Imperialist sphere" as part of the basis of the proposal. The stated purpose in the original post of the thread is to "allow those wronged by the region to have their retribution" and the proposal is justified as a way that that "[r]aiders should reap what they sow" and that "TNI deserves to get what it dished out for so many years". Another proponent argued for giving TNI "a taste of their own medicine". All taken together, the texture of the argument presented is one of vengeance, that somehow this will do sufficient harm to TNI to make it worthwhile or good for TNI to have something bad done to it. This Information for Voters asserts that such a model of justice, based solely on retribution for past harms rather than providing a remedy, advancing a positive cause more broadly, rehabilitation, or another justification is dangerous and contrary to Refugi values in the broadest possible sense.

To some extent, counter-invasions can perhaps be justified through a more forward-looking set of arguments than the ones presented. Many of the ordinary possible justifications for why a counter-invasion might stop future invasions are off the table: TNI doesn't have updaters or pilers that might get disrupted or scattered as a result of the counter-invasion. TNI is not used to forward or create Imperialist propaganda or messaging anymore. Perhaps an argument could be made that its continued existence serves Imperialist propaganda and that a counter-invasion would build energy and activity within defending. You could even justify a TNI counter-invasion in a very "we get to retaliate against those who harmed us" sense rather than a "how dare did TNI do evil!" sense. In the author's failure to connect counter-invasion to any kind of meaningful end goal, or articulate a broader theory of why retribution-based or vengeful justice is a good thing in this or any other context, they have failed to present a compelling case for why counter-invasions are justified.2

Finally, while it is not ultimately the basis for this recommendation, the Security Council correspondent wishes to note the meaningful discontent among Refugi regarding the practice of counter-invasion more broadly.

Refugi Arch-Administrator Refuge Isle/Luca criticized the practice, writing:

Refuge Isle wrote:It isn't morally or ideologically consistent for me to say that I'm against regions getting invaded and then turn around and say that it's justified here. Not because there's an argument to be had on regional sovereignty, but because the type of justice that you're floating is one based around revenge and retaliation. The classic "drink of your own medicine". That sort of Hammurabi-branded thinking has no productive value. I won't abide malicious region destruction, regardless of what the gameplay alignment of the natives are.

Ideology aside, I feel you're looking at this region from a misguided frame of reference. You may, for example, value THTHI. You may have strong feelings if it were refounded, but I wouldn't put that projection onto raiding orgs. It isn't as though you will stop or even damage raiding by deleting an old forgotten region. Even if TNI were active, the prudent move would simply be to move to another region and continue raiding per usual. In the end, nothing is accomplished except to demonstrate that your values are entirely pliable.

At least let neutral onlookers be able to discern the difference between the two factions.

Refugia resident and Delegate of The Rejected Realms Chimes/Jamie Linkalso said they "don’t believe in the idea of counter invasions so the proposal isn’t something [they] can support".

The Security Council Correspondent does wish to note that this does not represent the official basis of the recommendation because it would be improper for an appointee of the Councillor of WA Affairs to establish an official regional position on an operational matter controlled by the Councillor of Operations, and to some extent the Regional Council more broadly, without consultation. However, in gaining a generalized sense of Refugi values, it is important to highlight these perspectives from Refugi who have given opinions on the subject. On a personal note as a defender, I will also note a concern that this proposal will ultimately only bring bad press to the cause of defending and give an opportunity for the creation of raider propaganda generalizing the author's haphazard and vengeful approach (which has happened), and therefore that its introduction, further pursuit, and submission does a more significant disservice to the cause the author supports than the proposal does a service to it, even in the best version of the author's argument.

Recommendation

Upon analysis, there are multiple problems with the presentation and justification of the Security Council proposal Liberate The New Inquisition. It represents a haphazard, ineffective, and vengeance-driven approach to the Security Council which is entirely incompatible with Refugi values. The Security Council Correspondent to the Councillor of WA Affairs strongly recommends a vote against Liberate The New Inquisition.

1 It is worth noting that TNI and the FRA were at one point in a state of war, and that therefore some former members of the FRA have supported this proposal despite the organization's general tendency against offensive operations. Examples: here Linkhere and Linkhere.
2 Lightly modified from this post by Security Council Correspondent Emojitheft posting on their own behalf as the nation HumanSanity


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Chacapoya, Samudera, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and 6 othersAraine, Free Las Pinas II, Junitaki-cho, Chatula, Pantala and pyrrhia, and Kariforunia

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