South Pacific

Densaner wrote:

I remember reading that when it came out. Interesting story. Of course in Lord of the Flies there had been some kind of nuclear war, so they probably thought there would be no comeback on their bestial actions. 🍄

Oh yeah, I forgot there was a hint that a nuclear war of some sort had occurred...just an image of a mushroom cloud in the background, I believe.

I'm not sure about that reading of their motives, though. I think most of them were really too young to comprehend what such a war would've meant. On top of that, I don't believe the children ever mention that the world outside is probably gone, or discuss the war that may be ongoing out there. They eventually give up hope of rescue, but that's more to do with just a general despair and unraveling. I think Golding was implying that it was simply the lack of social structure or civilization which drove them to barbarism.

Anyway, "cracking" novel, as you all might say...

By the way, what type of paper is "The Guardian"? I am always unsure what the quality of the newspaper is when I come across an article from a British newspaper online. I'd love to hear a brief rundown of British papers, from "most trusted" to "utter rubbish."

Panther wrote:

Came across this interesting article, with a tangential connection for our region:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months

I assume most folks are at least aware of the general plot outline of the novel Lord of the Flies: a group of young school-age boys are shipwrecked on an island, and gradually descend into barbarity. Well, around a decade after the novel came out, a true version of this story occurred.

A group of schoolboys from Tonga (see, here's the tangential connection, a South Pacific island) were marooned on a deserted island for over a year. But instead of "man's true animal nature" coming to the fore, the group of boys cooperated in order to survive the ordeal, coming up with sensible rules and working to help one another. It's a pretty cool story, and the article is well-written and -researched.

That's interesting. LotF was written to combat the hundreds of stories being churned out at the time of groups of British boys being marooned and keeping the "british stiff upper lip", and trying to imagine what would happen if a group of small schoolboys were actually stuck on an island without any adults for a prolonged period of time. So, nice to know LotF isn't the scenario that would always play out.

Panther wrote:

By the way, what type of paper is "The Guardian"? I am always unsure what the quality of the newspaper is when I come across an article from a British newspaper online. I'd love to hear a brief rundown of British papers, from "most trusted" to "utter rubbish."

The Guardian's one of the most reputable ones. We're encouraged to use it as a source for essays etc.
although it's left-wing, so it's got bias

Densaner wrote:

Click to show...

It’s a mid range liberal paper, it was founded in Manchester in the wake of The Peterloo Massacre. Most newspapers in the UK are right wing, almost all of them are garbage. You have snobby right wing papers such as The Times, mid range ones like The Daily Mail and The Daily Express and toilet paper ones like The Sun and The Daily Star. You also have the FT if you’re rich and The Morning Star if you’re a commie. The worst ones by far are The Sun and The Daily Mail. The only major centrist to centre left papers in the UK are The Guardian and The Daily Mirror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cicunsmUnas

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster#The_Sun

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

Took me a bit to process all of those links.

I hadn't heard of the Hillsborough disaster, but that sounds truly awful. I don't think I understand the role of the press and misinformation, however. I gather that the event so badly reported by the Sun that it led to a significant loss of credibility among the public. But I don't understand why they were pushing those lies to begin with. What was everyone hoping to achieve by blaming the fans? Was it just to shift the blame away from the stadium owners?

Hadn't heard of the "Peterloo Massacre" either. I am similarly left with so many questions. A massive protest breaks out, and the city calls in the local cavalry who charge in with drawn sabres and trample everyone. And the response is the passage of new acts that aim to crackdown future meetings and reform movements? Well, this is all sounding FAR too similar to recent events over here...

Interesting that it led to the creation of "The Guardian," though. That's a noble origin for a paper.

I enjoyed, once again, your snippet from another episode of "Yes, Minister."

Johanneslanden wrote:

That's interesting. LotF was written to combat the hundreds of stories being churned out at the time of groups of British boys being marooned and keeping the "british stiff upper lip", and trying to imagine what would happen if a group of small schoolboys were actually stuck on an island without any adults for a prolonged period of time. So, nice to know LotF isn't the scenario that would always play out.

Ah, I hadn't heard that motivation for writing the novel. It came out after WWII, though, so quite understandable that pessimism about humanity was on his mind. But yes, the story did give me a little hope...though I wonder how much of it had to do with the culture of the Tongan boys? I wonder how a group of American boys would fare in such a situation...

Johanneslanden wrote:

The Guardian's one of the most reputable ones. We're encouraged to use it as a source for essays etc.
although it's left-wing, so it's got bias truth

Fixed that for you :P

Iggly Iggle wrote:

I feel that 'The Times' is probably one of the most honest British newspapers.

Any paper owned by Murdoch ain’t honest.